102. Turning your flaw into a superpower with Seamus Evans
If you've ever felt like adversity is holding you back - this is the episode for you. Tourette Syndrome Ambassador and former TV and radio presenter Seamus Evans explains how he turned his flaw into a superpower through acceptance, passion and determination - and how you can do the same!
Transcript
Sally:
Welcome back to That Voice Podcast. If you are tuning in for the first time, you have picked the episode for it. It's been a long time since I've had a guest on. So I wanted it to be an absolute firecracker and you won't be disappointed! My guest today is Seamus Evans. Like myself, Seamus has a background in TV and radio, but he was where the personality goes, which is programs and not news. I'm obviously joking! News reporters have the best personalities, too. These days, Seamus is a sought-after keynote speaker, where he encourages people to turn their flaw into a superpower. Love that, turning their flaw into a superpower. Seamus's flaw in massive air quotes is he has Tourette Syndrome. So we chat about how he navigated this in the crazy high pressure world of TV and radio. And Seamus shares so many inspirational tips and techniques to accept who you are.
Sally:
If you've ever felt too much, too little, too young, too old, too ugly, too pretty, too anything, then this episode is for you. And if you have any kind of adversity, physical or otherwise, and you feel like this is holding you back in any way, including speaking, then this episode just might be game-changing for you. I know you're excited, but before we dive in, I have an announcement! My Six Week Voice Makeover is kicking off again on Feb 27. This is my online course where I give you my step-by-step process to prepare yourself for any speaking scenario because there's no point preparing your content if you don't also prepare yourself as well. You know, things like your mindset, your posture, your breathing, your vocal cords. And My Six Week Voice Makeover gives you those steps. Doors are opening very soon so make sure you're on the waitlist to get the very best deal on the course. I will link to it in the show notes. Okay. I cannot wait to share my joyful chat with Seamus. Let's dive in.
Sally:
Seamus Evans. Welcome to That Voice Podcast. So great to have you here!
Seamus:
Thank you so much for having me, Sally. I really appreciate it. Loving the podcast, loving what you're doing. It's great. So thank you so much!
Sally:
You are the first person I'm interviewing for my new season and it is so exciting to be back here talking to people. And I love your message, and I know that you love talking to people as well. So give us the elevator pitch. What do you say when people say, tell us a bit about you that age-old question.
Seamus:
Yeah, so I'm an ambassador for Tourette Syndrome Association Australia, and I give keynotes all over Australia in schools and organizations on turning a flaw into a super power through the three main pillars of acceptance, passion and determination.
Sally:
Wow. You've got a background in media and that's how we first came to connect, in a way. And the world of television, whether it's in programs or in news is just like not the friendliest place a lot of the time. Like it's pretty tough. How did you go getting into that with Tourette's? How did you find that journey that getting in the door I suppose?
Seamus:
Yeah. Well, as you know, the media industry and the broadcast industry is quite cutthroat and everybody who's in it wants to be the very best. And I started out at 18, wanting to be the next Rove Live or Karl Stefanovic with very large, high hopes. And I started on a kid's show called Toasted TV at Channel 10. I was so fortunate at such a young age to be on television, national television. And I hosted toasted TV for about four years. But yeah, I have Tourette Syndrome. I was diagnosed at the age of 10. But I've had it since I was an infant. When I was a baby, my sister called me Snuffaluffagus cuz I kept like wriggling my nose. And to be honest, when I first got the job, I didn't tell them that I had Tourette syndrome because it was a bit of an insecurity.
Seamus:
It made me different. I didn't like it. So I wasn't forthcoming. And I wasn't confident about letting the world know that I had Tourette's, so I didn't tell them. And then after about a week in the job, they noticed my tics, they noticed me twitching. And they pulled me aside and said, "Hey, what's what's going on here? Why do you keep twitching?" And I said, "Oh yeah, I've got Tourette's." And so they kind of freaked out a little bit and thought, "Gee, we've just hired this kid who tics all the time to be on television. How on earth is this gonna go?" And they essentially said, "Look, if it's gonna be a problem, we can just, you're still under probation on the contract. If it doesn't work out, we can just get rid of you and we'll get someone else." And because that's all I wanted to do, I failed school.
Seamus:
I was disengaged in school. I did not like it. So I failed with a very poor end of year school. And so I couldn't go to uni and I'm not the manual labor kind of guy. Like, that's not me at all. So this is the only thing I wanted to do was to be on television. And I finally got that chance. And because my Tourette's was going to be the reason why I wasn't gonna be on television. I really kind of freaked out. And which then began my journey of self-acceptance. Because I kind of registered. I was like, well, it's like when your car breaks down, you've gotta open up the bonnet to see what's inside and see what's wrong. So I had to do a really big self-analysis, self-check and accept the fact that I was different, accept the fact that I had Tourette's, and accept the fact that I had something that I was in control of and it wasn't gonna be a setback for me.
Seamus:
So in order to do that, I went through a really big, essentially a psychological procedure myself, where I had to analyze how I was feeling all day, every day. What triggers the tics? What makes me tic more? What makes me tic less? How am I feeling? Tired, angry, happy, sad—everything. And the best way to, I'll sum up Tourette syndrome quite quickly. It's a neurological condition made up of both motor and vocal ticks. And you've gotta have both to have Tourette's. A tic is like, everybody's brain self regulates itself by firing signals to the body. It needs to do that. However, everyone has a gate at the bottom of the brain to stop the unwanted signals. People with Tourettes have a weak or no gate. So the signals fire through. That's what a tic is. And the best way to describe it is like having an itch on your arm, right?
Seamus:
And so you can go a long period of time without scratching that itch. However, it's annoying, it's frustrating and you end up scratching it anyway. So the best way to describe a tic is like having an itch on your arm. And I had to learn how to scratch that tic without scratching it the normal way. And so I had to come up with so many different trials and tribulations and techniques of trial and error to disguise my tics into body language. So for example, one tick was jerking my head backwards as if I'm saying hello to someone walking past. And because that's such a visual tick, I had to go, "Wow, how am I going to do that?" So I would, when I'm interviewing someone when they would respond and I would nod to say, "Oh yeah, no way. Okay. Wow, that's great!"
Seamus:
I would accentuate it. Or for example, one of my tics is a a shoulder jerk, right? And so to kind of let that tic out to scratch that itch without scratching it so visual, every now and then I'd just roll my shoulders or, you know, rearrange the shirt. And it gets that tic out without it being such a large individual eyecatching movement to distract the viewers. And this took me a good, a good three months or longer than that. It took me quite a while and it was a management maintenance thing. So I had to do it all day everyday from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to sleep. Self-regulate how am I feeling and register those tics and physically manipulate them to be disguised.
Sally:
Wow. I'm listening to that. And I'm thinking that that is the extreme level of self-management, but I feel like a lot of people have something perhaps less noticeable that they use the same things to cover up. Different insecurities that they try to have techniques to not be obvious when they go out. You know, whether it be from getting quite sweaty or to, you know, something weird with your eyebrow or something like that. So, you've gone from TV into keynote speaking, to schools and different organizations. And is this what you're finding? Are you finding that everybody is able to relate to this insecurity in a way?
Seamus:
Yeah. Well, I think that, although, yes, I have Tourette's, I've got ADHD and I've had my mental health, my share of mental health problems as I think a lot of us have and very disengaging school. So I've got a fair bit of city that I had to subconsciously overcome. And I think what a lot of us, so many of us fall into the trap of, of this Imposter syndrome of this, "I can't do X, Y, Z because of my adversity, because of this insecurity.". And to me, in my experience, that is a self-appointed setback. So I meet so many kids who I do, these talks to schools, and they come up to me and say, "Oh, that really resonated with me because I have X, Y, Z". And it's not necessarily such a a noticeable adversity that this person is facing, but we all have something that no one's normal.
Seamus:
There's no such thing as normal. We all pretend to be normal. And I have found the biggest hurdle to get over of not necessarily Tourette's or anything is really accepting who I am as a person in all of its, you know, flaws and strengths. As some people like to say, everyone has flaws, or everyone has adversity, but it's your choice. If that adversity is a flaw or a strength. And in my keynote, I share how my challenges of overcoming the challenges associated with Tourette's to work on television and then pursue a career in the media. Because they were gonna fire me after the first week, but I ended up lasting 13 years, hosting TV shows, radio shows. And now, I loved my job working on television and radio. It was amazing doing standup comedy. However now, I kind of moreso wanna focus on helping other people instead of just making 'em laugh.
Sally:
And you can do both at the same time. I'm sure!
Seamus:
Yeah. I've got many, many jokes about Tourette's. I've been making those jokes for many years about Tourette's.
Sally:
From what I've seen online, you have some really great jokes in your talk, I guess, you know, humor is always a great way to connect. But I really love that, you know, we have the choice to see it as a flaw or as a strength. You know, the mind has the ability to assign that, meaning even small things about, you know, nerves and excitement feeling the same way in the body we get to decide, are we nervous or are we excited? And I see this a lot when people say they're too something, you know, like I'm too young or I'm too old, or I'm too this or too that it's the same thing. If you're too young well, your youth is likely your strength. That's just super power in the room. You know, you've had these things happen to you. I'm sure we can all relate to that where we're, you know, poor me. Why is this happening to me? But when you get out of that victim mentality and say, wow, this actually happened for me, not to me. And so turning that around is so powerful, isn't it?
Seamus:
Yeah. But I think that is the hardest thing. I think the hardest thing is coming to accept it or, or look at it as neutral to work out what you can't do with it. So, yeah, that was such a good example, being younger than so many people. And look, we've all been younger than you know, we've all been young. And yeah, it can be seen as, oh, they're too young. They don't know what they're talking about. But if you kind look at that self-appointed setback mutually, you can pick it out and cherrypick, wait, hang on. What's the benefits of being young. You know, you're a bit more current and finger on the pulse with a lot more things that a lot of older people aren't aware of. Like the amount of times I've had to help my mom fix her phone because she has no idea with, you know, whatever, whatever the app she's trying to download is there are so many benefits to what some people consider a self-appointed setback or an adversity. And I guess my mission is to kind of go, "Hey, everyone's got something it's okay. It's not as bad as you think. And you can use that to your advantage instead of using it as a disadvantage or stopping you from doing anything."
Sally:
Absolutely. I love that so much. And you're so right. Like how do you do it? It's the hardest thing. So do you have any practical tips for how people can start to make that shift into seeing their flaw as their superpower?
Seamus:
Yeah, so I talk about the three pillars of acceptance, passion and determination. And the first thing is you have to accept who you are. You to accept every single part of you, psychologically, physically, everything. You have to be fully yourself and lean into your personality, lean into everything—your likes, your dislikes. And in doing that, I found a confidence. So for example, you know, I don't like sport. In fact, I hate sport. I can't stand watching it. The Cricket was on recently, you couldn't get me further away from the television, but all of my mates, they love it. And so for me to stand out and be different and say, "Oh, I don't like Cricket." You know, they turn around and ridicule me. But, in opening up and being honest about who I am, I found the confidence. And that sporting example is just one.
Seamus:
There are so many others. And once you lean into who you are, I found that you discover a passion because you start exploring your likes and dislikes, and you start leaning into doing more things that you like instead of thinking that you need to do them because that's what everyone else does. And you discover a passion. And this is exactly what happened to me. I was on television and I loved it, but I started really exploring my likes and what I liked naturally doing without any influence. And I really was drawn to radio. And I loved listening to the breakfast show in the morning, and on radio. And I thought, "Hey, I think I wanna do that!" And so the third pillar is determination. So accept who you are as a person, find your passion, and become determined and stop at absolutely nothing until you get there.
Seamus:
Going from television to radio was one of the hardest things I ever did because, and I'll be very honest. And I go into this on my keynote is. I was on television from 18 to 23 or 24, sorry, 25. I was on there for seven years. In my early twenties, I thought way too highly of myself. My ego was massive! I was getting recognized. When you're in the media, things come to you for free. People treat you differently because they recognize you. So my formative years was in a world that isn't real. And you're treated differently because you're on television. And so I had this this mindset of, "Ohh, I'll get a job on radio. No problem. I'm on television." I was so privileged. And my mindset was, my ego was massive. And so I moved from Adelaide to Melbourne, and I got a very serious reality check when no one cared. Every radio station I reach out to, they couldn't give us stuff about the work that I did and that the fact I was on kid's TV.
Seamus:
So I crumbled. My ego completely deflated. I had a really strong reality check and I slipped into a depression and I could barely get out of bed. But I had to learn how to get myself out of it, build myself back up, build that confidence back up without an ego. So I could keep charging on because I failed school. I had nothing else to fall back on. There was no degree. There was no other skill. I was like, well, this is it. So I had to just find ways to get on top of my mental health so I could stay positive and keep going to, until. That took about a year of living in Melbourne with next to no money. Until I got my very first breakfast radio job in xxxx for the Hit Network.
Sally:
Oh, Seamus. I love that so much. I can relate a little bit as well. When I was working for Channel 7 up in Rock Hampton. I'd been up there running the newsroom for a couple of years and was getting a bit towards burnout. And I moved down to Brisbane with my partner at the time. And I thought, "Well, I've been running the Channel 7 Central Queensland news bureau. I'm gonna be able to get a job, like come on." And I had that reality check as well, where they were like entry-level media, liaison jobs at councils. And they're like, "No, you're not qualified." I was just like, "What the?". You're right. It's a very, it's good to have that sobering experience.To start to really look at who you are and what you want and who you really are beyond the Sally Prosser 7 News or beyond the identity where you form on TV.
Seamus:
It gives you a reality check. Sorry. It gives you a reality check and you know, where you stand. So when you know, people are truthful and they're honest, and treat you differently to what you're used to you, you learn where you stand and then you can understand, "Okay, well, that's where I am. Well then how do I get a bit further?" And everything that's kind of, I'm always, I'm the type of person that I'm always looking to better myself. I'm always looking to further in the future. I'm always looking for bigger, for better, for more, you know, abundance in every area. And so I really like finding out where I stand and I really like to hear what people honestly think about me, because then you understand, okay, that's the truth.
Sally:
Yeah. I love that. It's all in the framing. Isn't it? You know, there's one of my quotes I learned this year, not my quotes. One of the quotes I learned this year was, "There's success in every failure and failure in every success". And so it's, I loved what you said earlier about neutrality is that, you know, things aren't good or bad or right or wrong, they just are. And the more you can accept them, the better you'll be. And a quote, my mom actually told me yesterday, which was dunno where it came from, but I love it is "It's not so much about the, so it backs, but the comebacks".
Seamus:
Yeah, absolutely. I think. And, you're right. Like, I hear these quotes all the time about, you know, successes about failure and it's the ability, and that's where I talk about determination because it's the ability to get knocked down and get back up. I love boxing. I love it so much. And I learned very good lessons when I got punched in the face. And you know, to become a good fighter is not how well you can throw a combo or punch. It's how well you can get hit in the face and keep going. And that is the exact same thing. The amount of times I've been told, "No," it's the ability to go, okay, well, who's next and move on to another one. A numbers game. Okay. They said, no, why let's look at why they said no, and then go onto another one. Let's do this next time. And if you can embrace that, then there's no stopping to how far you can actually go.
Sally:
A hundred percent. Yes. I enjoy boxing as well, but I just, I just box the bag.
Seamus:
The bag doesn't punch back.
Sally:
It doesn't it doesn't for sure. And I work with lots of young journalism students as well, and I find that they can, and actually not just young journalism students, we all tend to put our eggs in one basket to knock on that one door and really feel sad when that door doesn't open, but you gotta knock on all the doors and then jump through a window. And I think media teaches this as well. I mean, especially in news, the first person you called and said, "Do you wanna be in this, in the story?" They usually said, "No." You have to, it just like, "Cool!" Lots and lots of people.
Seamus:
Yeah. And something that I like to say is that the difference between you and someone else who makes it in, you know, is "whoever gives up first". So, I've always got this mindset of "No, you will make it. It's just a matter of time and you have to keep on going." And you're right. The first person will always say "No." And something that I've had to learn is going from going from, you know, representing a company like Channel 10 or the Hit Network. You have a bit of confidence about you because you have a title. So when you call someone to be on a story, "Oh, I'm X, Y, Z. And I work for this establishment", which gives you some credibility. But as soon as you start working for yourself, something weird I have found happens is some of that confidence is gone and you're like, "Oh no, I'm just some guy I'm not represented by anyone." And you lose that credibility or that confidence. And I remember thinking, that's so weird. I had such amazing confidence when I was represented by that company, but now I don't, how can I have that confidence without the title attached? And it was literally just a mindset shift because I thought, "Well, hang on. I have that confidence anyway." So I had to learn how to essentially have that confidence on my own, out the backing of a large notable company.
Sally:
Oh, you know what, I really think I experience a bit of the same thing. And it's the first time I've really thought about. One of the activities I did is I do a lot of mirror work for confidence and looking in the mirror and saying, your sign off is so empowering. Just being like, "I'm Sally Prosser."
Seamus:
Yes.
Sally:
You know, from where, "I'm Sally Prosser", that is enough. Like, that's all you have to say.
Seamus:
Totally. And, and you know what, it's so funny because for years having worked on television and radio, I, I have really faced so many stagefright moments getting really nervous before a live cross before, you know, interviewing someone really famous. And you know, get that panic state. And I've had to experiment with so many different techniques to be on my best performance and even dealing with when I was on totally wild. And I had to talk to a zookeeper, who was very charismatic. But as soon as you put the camera on them, bang, they turn into a robot. And I had to experiment with so many different techniques to get them to be their charismatic self on screen. And lately, since doing these keynotes, I have discovered more techniques. So for example, when I do standup comedy, I actually tell myself that I'm going to do very poorly. I'm going to suck, and no one is gonna laugh to put myself at no expectations. So when someone does laugh, it's great. But before I go on stage for the keynote, it's the complete opposite. I literally, I stand backstage and I march around with my chest out and I like do these big arm fists in the air going, yes, this is gonna be so good. Everyone's gonna love it. I'm gonna be great! And it seems weird at first, but it has worked for me so much that positive affirmation is so powerful.
Sally:
Yeah. Fantastic technique. I really believe that the self talk manifests as the real talk. Coming back to that passion and determination with speaking is you really want that. Why to be really strong. You wanna know, why do you wanna talk about this? Or why do you wanna go on this video? Why do you wanna step forward? And once you've got that, then I believe that there is no adversity that you can't overcome.
Seamus:
Yeah. And, I think, you know, working in, in media kind of teaches our brains to think that "Why", because when I was in radio, one of the big things that was drilled into us is every time you turn that mic on, there needs to be a reason. You can't just have a joke, cause no one cares about you. You need to make them care. And so yeah, you need to find that "Why", that relatability, you need to find that, Hey, when you are actually on camera or behind the microphone, it's, you're not there for you. Your job is to be there for the. And when you can take yourself out of the content and change it to I'm making this content for your benefit, then that's when I found a huge shift in my content, I was bringing to the table because it was, and for many years it was, "Oh, I'm on radio. This is what I have to say. Just because I'm on air." But what radio taught me was no one actually cares about you until they get to know you and like you. So you have to be there for them, not be there for you. Because the audience has a great BS meter. And if you just turn the mic on and you know, talk about yourself and think that everyone likes you, they're gonna turn off pretty quickly.
Sally:
Absolutely. Yeah, speaking is an act of service.
Seamus:
It really is. Yeah.
Sally:
And this is why the rise of video because people's BS radar is very good.
Seamus:
Yeah, it's so good.
Sally:
They just wanna see people who they really are. And in saying that as well, we can't control everything. I do videos. And there's some people that say, "Why do you always put on stupid voice?" And then other people are like, "Oh no, you always sound like that!" So you can't please everybody. So why try?
Seamus:
It's interesting you said that someone's always there to critique you. Something that I had to battle with for about a year being in radio was when I would go to say something or tell a story, tell a joke, or be a certain side of my personality. I would always have these two people in my mind saying. One of 'em was, "Oh geez, he's so annoying. He sucks. He's not funny." And the other one was saying, "Oh my gosh, Seamus, that's hilarious. Keep doing it." And I remember thinking, "Wait a second, which one of them I going to play into?" Because I created these two characters. It was only until I went, you know. It don't think about anyone. Just be you run at it a hundred percent, and lean into whatever, you know side of your character you're going to portray and push it a hundred percent lose any of that. Because for so long, I was almost tiptoeing around the bush or doing it half-assed. But it was only until I relinquished that subconscious, this person's gonna judge me, this person's gonna think it's hilarious... Until I relinquish them, that's when I really found my voice on air.
Sally:
Oh, I love that. There's, the one way to think of it is if we are like a torch, we're often trying to shine on different people. Like, are they gonna get it or are they gonna get it? Are they gonna get it? But if we just focus on charging our own batteries and producing the strongest light we can from the inside, then it's gonna shine. And whoever is right for us is gonna be there.
Seamus:
Hugely. Yeah. And something that I've kind of learned recently is because I have had opportunity for more radio work. And to be honest, I've turned it down because I've come into this mindset. You know, your projection for success or being successful is not what you say yes to, but it's the things that you say no to that don't align with your direction and aren't on the same path. So I've had to say no to a few things because I'm like, “No, that's not the direction I'm going in. I'm not gonna move there. That's not gonna help me in my mission.” And I've really come to the realization. It's only the things that you say no, to allow you to say yes to the correct things.
Sally:
Oh, Seamus, all power to you. That so much harder to do than you realize. And, and in the world of radio, especially, it is challenging because you're subject to the rating gods. You know, like you can't just be like, "Oh, well, I like what I'm doing." They'll be like, "Oh, well, if the numbers don't like it, then it's either like you gotta change or you're out." So it can put you in that kind of fear state in lots of ways.
Seamus:
Yeah, and you know what I noticed that so much in radio. And my mindset was always be the kid up the back of the bus, because you always wanna be friends with that kid. He's bit naughty. He's inappropriate. He's fun and he doesn't care. But as soon as you start pressuring yourself with what's that person gonna think, "Oh my gosh, the ratings, the boss, I shouldn't have said that" the you know, the upset mother in the car with kids in the car or whatever it is, as soon as you pressuring yourself with that, you're not the kid up the back of the bus anymore. You're the annoying nerd teacher's pet up the front who always wants to impress the teacher. No one likes that kid! They're annoying. So I always had to have this mindset of, in fact, I kind of wrote down my own quote recently.
Seamus:
And I'm gonna swear here, so feel free to bleep it out. But I had this mindset of pressure. I had a really big talk, a big conference coming up and I started to feel the pressure and I just wrote down, "Fuck pressure. Life is a playground". Like, who gives a shit? You know, I'm doing this talk because this is who I am. And this is what the value I have to offer. Relinquish all of that mental pressure that you create for yourself and just be you a hundred percent. Honestly, just that little shift in mindset was what I needed to get up on stage and really execute that high pressure talk. It was great.
Sally:
Oh, another fantastic one, which is why I'm so big on silliness and joy. So I've got like the love heart glasses and the silly lips and that, because I believe as well when it comes to speaking and a lot of things, we just make it too serious. We just make it this big thing. That's like, oh my gosh, when really come on. Even if you don't believe we're all in The Matrix, you can still say, "Oh, this is one big video game. And let's just go and give it a hit." Hey, like, "Let's just have a go and have some fun!" And that reframing about it being a playground.
Seamus:
Oh, yes. Yeah. So good. Yeah, because I mean, we've all been to weddings. We've all been to events. We've all been to awards nightsm and they're so boring! And with a kid like ADHD, with a kid like me with ADHD and disengaged, I get bored so quickly. If I don't have regular enrichment, I'm out. So that was one of the big things I've kind of taken to my career projection. It always has to be entertaining and engaging, for the kid like me who's gonna tune out. And to be honest, one of the another realizations I've come to recently is, we are all going to die. And at some point I will be dead. And I wanna spend, however long I've got left on this earth, having fun and enjoying myself. And, if you're boring, you're not gonna have fun. So I always try and, you know, bring that fun element because I don't wanna live a life with boring stuff in it, you know.
Sally:
Oh, this is one of the many reasons I love you Seamus because you know, and especially in certain places online there, isn't a lot of fun. And I think that you definitely bring that. Do you have any final words, any parting pieces of advice? There's been such amazing value bombs being dropped in our chat today.
Seamus:
One of the things I like to say is that someone asked me recently because I am an ambassador for Tourette Syndrome Association Australia. And we are all at some to some degree face with adversity. One thing I kind of wanna say is when you come across someone who is a bit different to you, don't treat it like a novelty because, to them, it's not a novelty, it's their reality. So, you know, a lot of times I'll meet someone and because I'm so confident about my Tourette's and I'm, I'm fine. I'm not insecure about it at all, but they treat it as a novelty. And I'm okay with that because that they lose that. It eventually goes when they get to know me. But to a lot of people, who are really struggling with their Tourette's— the 16 year old girls getting kicked outta school. They're shy, but they have such loud and physical tics. That is not a novelty to them. That is their reality. So, whenever you meet someone, ignore whatever it is that you notice and just talk to the person and not their condition.
Sally:
Such fantastic, fantastic advice. Seamus, thank you so much for coming on That Voice Podcast.
Seamus:
No worries. Thank you for having me. Woohoo!
Sally:
Isn't Seamus the best? That man is so full of zest that you can't help but be happy around him. So if you'd like to get in touch with Seamus for a keynote or to follow, then search Seamus Evans on LinkedIn, or go @MrSeamusEvans on Instagram, that's M R S E A M U S E V A N S. Got that right. Have a great day and remember to love your voice!