120. The Power of Archetypes

Get ready for a fascinating conversation about archetypes! Join Brand Archetype Coach Madelaine German to learn what an archetype is, why we have them and how understanding yours can make you a more powerful speaker.

Transcript

Hello, hello. Get ready for a fascinating conversation about archetypes. What are they, why we have them and how understanding yours can make you a more powerful speaker. I'm joined by brand archetype, coach Madelaine German. Before we dive in, I have a quick favor to ask. I haven't had a review of this podcast on Apple in almost a year.

I can see the listen numbers rolling in. So I don't believe I'm streaming into the vortex, but sometimes it feels like it. So, anybody who leaves me a review, screenshots it and emails it to support at Sally Prosser dot coms or a you all my Instagram @sallyprosservoice, anyone who does that will receive a complete set of my one page wonders to tick all the boxes in your next speaking challenge.

Now this one page is a normally reserved for my corporate clients and they include a range of topics, including tips for the memorizing, how to wow on webcam, tips to hold your own in a meeting, how to use key messages, how to handle tough conversations. And there's a few more there, too. I really appreciate you. And I hope that's a little bit of an incentive to leave a review.

Okay. The power of archetypes let's do this.

Sally: Madelaine German. Welcome to That Voice Podcast. So great to have you on the show.

Madelaine: Oh, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Sally: I would love to start off by just letting us know a little bit about you and how you came to be interested in.

Madelaine: It was just an insatiable curiosity that really came up for me, I would say five or six years ago. And I've been reading effectively. It feels giving myself a PhD in this world of understanding archetypes in the human imagination and subconscious mind. Um, and I guess it came as a result really of my experience with life and how I found the archetypes and was able to use them to move into my hero, adventure and create the life I wanted to live, you know?

Sally: And for people listening who are new to archetypes, what are they?

Madelaine: Yeah. I mean, an archetype is a prototype or an original model or mold from what she would cast. Um, something you could think of them as primordial images inside of the human imagination that we've inherited from millions of years of evolutionary history and ancestry. It's probably really good to start at the idea that, you know, humans communicate through language now, but in the millions of years of evolution of our species, we only developed the anatomy for complex linguistic expression around a hundred thousand years ago.

So we were, you know, whatever friends seen and like yelling at each other before then, but then we didn't really start speaking or at least there's no evidence of the anatomy required to speak in linguists, like complex linguistic patterns until around then a hundred thousand years ago.

All of those thousands of years. Most of the world population wasn't literate. It was really only in the past several hundred that the majority world populations has been able to read and write. So for all of those years of our ancestry, we were telling stories around campfires and in great halls and great cathedrals.

We were telling the stories of our gods and heroes and, you know, tales of great wonder. So those stories, when you look at them from. A global perspective across all culture and time and place, there are emergent patterns or themes in those story, character understandings that we use to understand who we are and who the world around us is reflecting to us.

You know, like the mother would be an example of an archetype. We all have an experience with the mother. It's a very real character, both in our lives and in society. But that idea of the mother could look a million different ways. There could be a lioness mother, or there could be, um, you know, a mother who has twins.

There could be a single mother or a mother with 10 children, but that fundamental, the idea of the mother is what an archetype is. It's an understanding of who or what something symbolizes in the world and the evolutionary purpose behind our brain forming these ideas would be that they facilitate social order.

If someone's posturing as a threat or a friend, you'll be able to pick up on their archetypal patterns of communication and body behavior and mannerisms, and you'll be able to better protect if you might need to deal with them in some kind of, um, potentially dangerous or deadly way. So the archetypes are like these characters that we've told to ourselves, through stories that represent who we are. We have all of them inside of us, but we move into more of a dominant and subdominant archetype. Really starting around adolescence, you'll start kind of honing in on your archetype or your personality, that, that part of you that remains pretty constant throughout life.

But if you've properly evolved through your social and conscious development and you've allowed yourself to explore the different archetypes instead of stereotyping people, which is just like a flat broadcast. You know, like the sexy cocktail waitress is a stereotype, you know what I mean? Cause you have to be female if you're the waitress. You have to be sexy and you probably have to be young. And so like an overweight, older guy wouldn't fit that mold. So the sexy cocktail waitress as a character is a stereotype. It can't really bend or flex very much, but archetypes, like I was going back to the mother example, they bend and they flex and we move in them and towards them and away from them. And if you've gone through archetypal progression and like, let yourself experience different sides of who you are, you're better able to understand people who are presenting as that dominant archetype when you're interacting with them. And you can more powerfully and intuitively see them and speak to them in a way that resonates deeply with them. You know, being able to hear what you have to say. Does that make sense?

Sally: Absolutely! I'm glad that you made that distinction between stereotype and archetype. And so. I feel with the archetypes that's something we can access in order to better understand ourselves and also tap into our superpower.

What might be helpful now is maybe share some common archetypes and what characteristics they have. So if someone's listening, they might think, oh, yes, I resonate with that one or another one. And then like, how could you potentially use that when it comes to public speaking.

Madelaine: Yeah. I'll start in the coaching. The online coaching space, the most common archetype in that space is the Magician. So the Magician is an archetype that promises the world. I know the secrets of the universe, and if you come and learn them with me, we can make magic and transform the world. So that's kind of like the secret potion energy that a lot of motivational speakers and coaches have. You know, I understand something about how it works and if you learn it from me, you'll be limitless. And clients who are looking or people who are looking to that archetype are on the same kind of journey that the person who's embodying that archetype is speaking about.

So if you're doing anything that's transformational in any kind of way, and you want to play to someone's draw towards being able to manifest magic from the universe, stepping into that Magician archetype and understanding. People who are coming to are looking for the special secrets. Tony Robbins is a great example of the Magician, you know, inspirational speaker.

I've got, I've got it what you need. Abraham Hicks is another mindset and law of attraction teacher. I'm thinking of, that's a very Magician archetype to embody.

Sally: Anybody who does speak about transformation. Stepping into that archetype would really help them hone in on that message on what is that magic?

What is that transformation? What is that potion?

Madelaine: So if you're a public speaker or anyone who's showing up on video or digital or 3D stage, the most powerfully aligned and powerfully resonant you is going to be your, probably your primary authentic archetype. You know, one of those core things about who you are. So you can look into your life in your imagination and think of some of the characters from film or television or books that you always most admire.

And start asking as you go through them. If they share any common traits or characteristics, like I love Daenerys from Game of Thrones. Did you ever watch that show?

Sally: Can you believe? I have never watched it. Like I've asked you one of the only people on the planet.

Madelaine: Why not?

Sally: I don't know. I think I just never got into it. I never, I think it was on pay TV over here and I didn't have it. And so yeah, it just never had.

Madelaine: Well, maybe you should never start. Cause I think once you finally break the seal, you'll have to watch them all. It's such a great show. It's so good because there's such incredible character development, at least through the early season.

And Daenerys is the long blonde haired mother of dragons on the show. And she basically takes herself from slave girl, child bride to the top of the kingdom with powerful dragons. You know, she reawakens the magic and lands. There's a lot of debate over the ending of the show and what the writers did with her character, but she's very much connected to magic.

She's also a fierce warrior. She has these fire-breathing dragons and she flies around and destroys sounds and stuff. So, yeah, she's very fierce. Um, and she's probably one of my favorites because my two strongest archetypes are the Magician, like this inner magic. And then the Warrior is almost just a strong with me.

My two sides are both very strong and they're for the most part. But she's a character that's always resonated because she's representing both of my strongest archetypes. Um, I'm trying to think of another one. Can you think of any of your favorite characters to get a glimpse into what your archetype might be?

Sally: I really like Uma Thurman in Kill Bill. What's her name be? So people who know me, it's probably no surprise for female characters who are very independent, who don't need help from anybody, who get the job done. That's the kind of thing I really resonate with.

Madelaine: That's a Tarantino film. Am I remembering?

Sally: It is, yeah.

Madelaine: Remember she was dapped when she was pregnant. And I think that bringing that into the storyline and channeling, like the most powerful light aspect of the feminine, you know, motherhood into its dark revenge death taking opposite was one of the things that made her character so complex and so easy to relate to.

She was very dark. She was light, but very dark. I remember watching that performance. She was not one dimensional. You know, Some of those tight bodies who would ass kicking. I don't know if I can say that word on here, but like those sexy one dimensional, feminine characters that go out and get all the bad guys, but she was way more complex.

Sally: Absolutely. Yeah, it just reminds me there's this scene where a, another female assassin comes into kill her and she's just found out that she's pregnant and she kind of had her fight. And then she says, I just found out in this moment. I mean, like, obviously she does a much better performance than I'm doing right now, but what happens is the female assassin actually actually does back out of the room.

I think that that little moments like that really do indicate it's not just as simple as this is a killing machine. So that's really interesting. So we've got the magician. What about some other common speaking archetypes people could step into?

Madelaine: Well, you could be a Sage. You could move more into that archetype, like the wise old man.

And that would be similar to the Magician in some ways, you know? So as you move through the archetypes and I have a handout on my Instagram that I just added, it's a guidebook to branding archetypes. If people are interested, just cause it's a lot to remember. The archetypes that Carl Jung, the psychologist, who really developed this idea, designed. They represent different journeys through the stages of life and consciousness.

So Jung says that the Innocent or the Orphan is the first one that we come into as people and experience as babies and infants. And from there we move into the orphan or the Every Man and then the Hero and then the Caregiver, but towards the end of the cycle, towards the end of life, as you've gone out and gotten some hard knock experience and figured out your superpowers, you know, maybe you've built a business or gone out and done something super crazy and inspirational.

You're the Hero who's now transformed into a Ruler. And the Ruler comes back to the kingdom with the gold they've acquired by facing down the greatest dragons on their journey which is effectively a representation of your dark crevice, subconscious minds. So the dragon that we all end up facing on our journey is just your deepest fears.

But in that later stage of the later development archetypes that we're talking about, it starts with the Ruler. So someone who's returned to the kingdom. And then the Magician is after that, that's kind of the King learning that not only does he fight and protect, but he can also make things happen. And then the next archetype would be the Sage as Carl Jung laid it out.

So the wise old man who knows everything and doesn't quite get so worked up and is moving more and more into a solid piece of knowing, you know, like I know what I know. Sages are very much rooted in factual knowledge. You know, they've done their homework, they've checked all their resources. I'm thinking of like biohackers and nutrition coaches or people who are coaching on things that really need to be exact or scientific when you're giving advice.

Because life coaching is a little more non metric you could say, but if you're doing something like teaching food science or dietary guidelines, you might be in a little bit more of a Sage, you know, listen to me, I care about the facts. I've done my homework and I'm telling you what I know.

Sally: Um, so some of the people I work with are like scientists and engineers who are speaking to share their research.

So would that be something that they could potentially step into the Sage, the wise old man kind of archetype?

Madelaine: Oh, totally. Inherent in the stage is the fact that you've lived life and you know what you know, and you're confident in how you know it. And you can step out of more of the Hero trying to prove something.

If you're doing informational speaking and you get out of that credibility vortex or something where you're really trying to be taken seriously. And you move more into the Sage, which is a bit more, I would say, like old grandfatherly or nurturing. You know, The wise old guy is sitting on the porch, giving advice, even just thinking about embodying that and what it would look like to you, you know, who someone that's really wise that you really respect and watching footage of them talking or acting and asking yourself what you really enjoy about.

That's Sage example or that wise old man, or that, you know, that person in film or television.

Sally: That's a great way to potentially overcome those feelings of Imposter Syndrome. So that feeling of ‘Oh my gosh, am I good enough? Do I know enough?’ Stepping into that Sage that, that wise old man or wise old woman who is just really confident in what you know.

That could be really helpful for, as you say, those speakers who have more information or research-based content.

Madelaine: And have you done very much stage acting, do you have any favorite character exercises? You know, how do you step into character if you ever have to?

Sally: Yes. So when I was younger, I did a lot of speech and drama and Eisteddfods in the school productions and all of that. So stepping into character. Oh, you know, I played Romeo in Romeo and Juliet in my school play. Cause I went to an all girls school, but like, I felt like quite big groups. So they had to like really like, bandage my chest down. It was really funny. Anyway, and for that I, um, and for many other characters as well, I'd develop a playlist.

So I will often develop music that sets the scene for the emotion I need to take into the particular area. And even now I'm a big fan of theme songs and music that can get you feeling good. Um, of course also the physical exercises. So starting to walk around the room as that character. Nowadays when I'm not doing so much character acting, but more just stepping into my power.

I do a lot of, uh, butterfly breathing. It's where I imagined my arms, a wings. And as I breathe in the arms, come out as I breathe out the arms coming. So I really feel like I'm starting to fly. And then I channel Taylor Swift and Beyonce. How would they walk on stage? The Queen is that I feel like it's the archetype of the, of the Queen.

She is the leader

Madelaine: That reminds me of the Sage, those elements of wisdom. As you get further, along in your journey where you can lead without having to lead, you know, you can just show up in your feminine energy and direct the flow of the energy in the room. I love women like that. There are very few women who really have that mastered and Beyonce is one of those.

When she's on stage, she just has it.

Sally: She just has it. Yeah. It's amazing. So you mentioned briefly earlier the heroes. So I also know a lot of people who do speaking because they're sharing hardships, they've overcome, you know, things that have happened in their life. They've been through it, they've overcome it. And now they're sharing that story to help others. So would that be the Hero that they'd be speaking from?

Madelaine: The Hero is an archetype. The Hero's journey is the motto myth of life. It's a metaphor for the journey. We all must go through. Cause none of us are getting out alive and all of us face dragons, whether we run away or go and face them.

So when you're sharing your Hero's journey, No matter what your dominant expression archetype like your dominant personality, you might be. You're always on a hero's journey fundamentally because the Hero represents that part of us that leaves the safety of home, goes out into the dark woods facing. The dark recesses of the monsters in our unconscious mind and then returns home to talk about it.

So all of us are Heroes. And when you're telling the story, you are embodying. I guess, inherently you are embodying the Hero, which is simply a representation for the courage it takes to move towards adversity instead of shrink. I think like back to the beginning, the archetypes are in our human imagination as a tool to facilitate social order and cohesion.

So we don't kill each other and we survive. You know, if we can understand who someone is because they're embodying and acting out the traits and characteristics of a archetype, like the raider, you know, the desert raider for, or the thief for the robber, someone who might potentially harm us, they exhibit kind of architectural signs and signals or someone untrustworthy or, you know, a possible villain or a possible threat. Someone who's just looking for violence or possible mate. Like the signs and symbols that we send to each other, help us to stay alive as a species. And that's why they're there. That's why they're so powerful.

I mean, can I go a little, like not political, but like speak a little bit of my mantra about why this matters to me.

Sally: Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to hear.

Madelaine: I think it's tied into the intention of this podcast in order for people to step into their authentic voice and potential of who they are and who they were born to be in the world.

Um, if they can't discover that, we're really screwed as a species. We're headed really fast at breakneck speed in areas of biological warfare and technological advancement and bionic and AI integration, like stuff is changing so fast and we're so much more separated than we were before. I love technology and believe in it full speed, but we have to reconnect to our humanity.

We have as a collective species. I think people are so interested in this right now because people are beginning to realize that unless you let yourself go into your archetypal mind until you take the room to look at your light and shadow aspects and how different archetypes really turn you off because they're reflecting to you something inside that's asking to come to the light of consciousness until we all do that we will never be able to express our voice, because if you don't know who you are, you can't say anything about it. You can't speak it if you don't know who it is. And until you've examined every single belief you hold about yourself and the world around you and tried to prove it false and really looked at it and decided if you want to keep it, you're not really acting from a conscious place. You're just acting on programming that might be outdated by like 20 years. Like something that happens when you were 12. And so we need, that's the hope for the world is more awakened, conscious people speaking, their authentic voice.

Sally: Ah, Madelaine, I really, I love that so much. And that's what speaking from your soul is all about. Isn't it? It's, it's understanding who you are. How can you speak your truth if you don't know what that is? How can you share your message if you don't know who you are, and I never, never heard it that way, but you've really made me realize that it's not about speaking from programming. It's about speaking from soul. And the way that we get from the programming to the authentic voice to the soul voice is through understanding. And the archetypes are the tool that can help us get there.

Madelaine: They're one of the most powerful, if not the only tool.

I mean, we didn't have anything besides symbols on caves and stories around campfires. We didn't have anything but archetypes for most of our evolutionary history. This whole reading and writing and technology technology thing is a very recent and rapid development. And I think that's why these things resonate with people.

Cause it's, it's, it's in your DNA. All of this is inside. You just have to remember how to imagine again, like imagine what you could be and play it out. Step into the character. Like pretend. When you're a little kid and you run around, you know, and you play pretend that's what you get to do forever. That's what you're supposed to do forever.

It's varying degrees of expression. Like you can't switch personalities or, you know, you could, I guess, or change your accent, but people might think that's weird, but you can explore it just a little bit at home alone or, you know, be one way with a certain group of friends. Cause you're kind of exploring that.

I don't think we're supposed to stop doing that pretend, that exploration of who we could be in.

Sally: Absolutely. So how can people who would like to find out more about this fascinating topic? Where can they find you?

Madelaine: They should come to Instagram, I'm getting ready to get started up on YouTube, but most of the recent stuff I've been putting out there is on Instagram.

And I have a Brand Archetype guide that I just posted there and it's a living, breathing document. So I'm always evolving and updating it as I learn more. And then I'm working one-on-one with clients. So if anyone would be interested in diving a little deeper and finding someone to guide them on their Hero's journey, working through their subconscious blocks or generally anxiety or procrastination, that's, I'm so passionate about helping people move through that so they can step into their authentic voice.

Sally: Yeah, fantastic. And Madelaine's Instagram is @madelainegerman. So it's just @madelainegerman. And I will also put the link in the show notes. This has been the most fascinating chat. I feel like we could do a very extended edition of this because there is just so many places that we could take it.

But if there was any final thoughts that you'd like to leave people with, is there anything you'd like to add?

Madelaine: If you do nothing else to learn about this topic as a speaker or a person at least start to notice in your life, the people who most trigger and aggravate you, because they're showing back to you some underdeveloped aspects of an inner archetype that they represent.

And if you start actually looking at them and asking yourself why you're so irritated or why you're so attracted to someone, whether it's romantically or as a celebrity, those are the clues, the really strong pulls or pushes away from particular characters that are your tool to finding your archetypes, your inner archetypes, and working them.

Sally: What a fantastic tip to end on. Madelaine. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Madelaine: I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy. Thanks for sharing time with me.