123. Breaking public speaking barriers

21-year-old Jahin Tanvir has broken plenty of public speaking barriers!

This impressive man was a finalist for Young Australian of the Year, has done three Tedx Talks and he founded a social enterprise called Breathe, which provides public speaking eduation to disadvantaged and marginalised people around Australia.

In this episode you’ll hear how Jahin overcame his own public speaking fears, how he brings a culturally competent lens to his training  and you’ll hear his incredibly powerful approach to memorising his TedTalk.

Transcript

Welcome to Episode 123 of That Voice Podcast. Now you may have seen— there's a new course on the block since the last season of the podcast, it is called Fear to Fierce. And I've put together this program to give you a solid sense of who you are and what you stand for. It's full of strategies to respond to those speaking freak- outs as they pop up, there's practical tips to produce a voice of trust.

So you have credibility and believability and a clear plan to take aligned action on your speaking goal. Fear to Fierce. And because you're listening to this podcast, I do want to offer you a special surprise. I will pop the link to Fear to Fierce in the show notes. And if you use the code FIERCE at the checkout, FIERCE, F-I-E-R-C-E FIERCE, you'll see, it's an absolute, no-brainer to dive in and claim your fierce. Okay, pause and go and check it out because I know you're curious to see what this code will do.

Okay, welcome back. My guest today is Jahin Tanvir, and Jahin landed in my LinkedIn inbox a few weeks ago. And I'm so glad he did! This 21 year old is pretty amazing. He was a finalist for young Australian of the year.

He's done three TEDx talks. Not one, not two, three TEDx talks. And he founded a social enterprise called Breathe., and this provides public speaking education to disadvantage and marginalize people around Australia. Amazing. In this episode, you'll hear how Jahin overcame his own public speaking fears, how he brings a culturally competent lens to his training, and you'll hear his incredibly powerful approach to memorizing his TED talk.

Let's dive in.

Sally: It is my great pleasure to welcome Jahin Tanvir to the podcast. Jahin, how are you today?

Jahin: I am doing fantastic. Thank you so much for having me on.

Sally: Oh, it's so great to chat to you. You're really out there sharing the message of confidence in speaking to a lot of people who may not otherwise have access to those skills.

So let's start from the start. How did you come to set this up?

Jahin: Well, so, uh, for a bit of a context for our audience, this year, I founded an Ed Tech social enterprise called Breathe., where we provide public speaking education in the form of education workshops, but also AI technology to disadvantaged communities, multicultural communities, and young people in general, um, how it came about?

Funnily enough, I feel like a lot of people in the audience can resonate with this three and four people have a fear of public speaking. And I think I was at the top of that completely afraid growing up. Primary school, high school, intense social anxiety, just feeling very, um, afraid to speak out. And then I sort of graduated high school and broke out of that shell.

And now having the privilege to do TED talks, keynote speeches, I realize there's a massive gap that exists in terms of that education, that confidence and wanting to take that matter into my own hands, decided to start Breathe. and to be able to provide the education and make it accessible, culturally competent and fun.

Sally: Yeah. So good. Was there a particular story that stands out to you when you think about your public speaking story and the fear of it? Was there a moment where it really culminated?

Jahin: Yeah, I think it was a. Um, sort of like a accumulation of different moments, but the main ones that I can point out in my lifetime have always been parent-teacher interviews.

So going to parent-teacher interviews is, you know, it's dreadful to say the least, but when you get comments such as, you know, for instance, every time I go to parent teacher interview all the way from primary school to I'd say about year 10, every single comment that my parents would get would be, Oh, he's a very diligent student. He's kind, he doesn't cause any trouble, but he doesn't talk he doesn't put his hand up. He's too quiet. He can't speak up.

And hearing that directly and seeing your parents react to that. Um, has definitely been a massive, you know, issue for me growing up. And I remember once my mom was like, if you don't speak out, you'll never get a job in the rest of your life!

And that fear instilled in me at a very young age. And I felt like, Oh, I'll never get a job. I can't do anything out of my life. Why? Because I can't speak out. I can't speak in front of an audience. I don't have that courage. And so I think I let that, um, push me down a bit of a rabbit hole into a bit of an abyss of, I can't do it.

I can't never do it. I have to look for jobs behind the scenes where I don't have to talk to people, but my goals and ambitions were always, you know, in front of people being able to speak, communicate network, I enjoyed that theoretically. But to do that in person was something that I never wanted to do because obviously that self doubt, that sense of hopelessness. Uh, but then again, you just have to break out of it and that's what I did.

Once I graduated high school, I had to say, I need to do this. I need to get outta my comfort zone. And baby steps happened, small, small steps, um, which has led to me today, in 2021, being a 21 year-old and having the privilege of, you know, delivering keynotes, TED talks and just being a public speaking person.

Sally: Yeah, it's incredible! And we'll get to your TED talk in a minute. So you said that it was when you graduated school, was there a particular motivation, like what led from this decision of, Okay. I'm never gonna, I'll always be behind the scenes to, I'm gonna do something about this. And then what did you do to overcome that?

Jahin: Yeah, absolutely. Well, for me, my public speaking journey started in youth advocacy. So advocating for young people's issues, that sort of was a catalyst in 2019, my first year of uni. When everything was just going wrong in the media. You'd see, you know, young people's issues, not being, um, heard, climate change, all these things.

And I was just like, Why isn't anybody talking about it? Why isn't anybody who's under, you know, 25, talking about it? Why is it always 60 year-olds talking about things that are way out of their perspective or, um, sort of education, in terms of the relevancy to how they're speaking. And I got very frustrated in that capacity.

I was just like, We need more young voices. I want more young leaders. And out of that frustration, I got to a point where I was just like, Okay, why don't I do that? If not me, who? And it was a very frightening thing to think about, but I was like, Let me do at least for three months, let me actually speak out. Be somebody who speaks out for these issues for three months, it could go completely wrong. Who cares? Let me just try it.

And so again, it started with very small baby steps. I started volunteering as a volunteer workshop presenter at Headspace, literally just going every, every week for an hour at a school and presenting, uh, about mental health or, you know, something about anxiety or managing your stress, just very small, basic fundamentals.

And then I started volunteering in other places as another presentor. And that just sort of started adding up. And then I found myself on a panel, um, at the Australian National University where they asked me to come and bring the youth perspective of what I was volunteering for, and just different doors starting opening up where I was exposed to different environments. Environments, where there were people obviously younger than, than me and younger, you know, school students, but also, you know, stakeholders, government officials.

And I started getting used to that environment of being able to speak in front of different context, different lived experiences. And I started enjoying that, because the feedback you receive at the end was just, it's ridiculous. You know, it's like they come up to you and say, Thank you so much for saying what I want to say.

Thank you so much for articulating that. And you realize you didn't even do anything. You were just like speaking your mind, but it resonated so deeply with so many people. And I started enjoying that. I slowly realizing that my voice had an impact, even if I don't have you know, a hundred percent proper, uh, public speaking skills. The way I speak, I started becoming more comfortable with that, embracing that.

And yeah, that's, that's where it sort of took off for me and never looked back!

Sally: Oh, Jahin it's such an impressive story and you're so right, isn't it? We convince ourselves— I often say we talk ourselves out of talking. You know, we think that what we have to say is not of any value we think who wants to hear our story, but when you get out there and share it, people can see themselves in us.

And so there's so much power in sharing our story. And so then, when you started enjoying it, is that when you got the idea, like there's a TED talk in this?

Jahin: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people resonate with this. A TED talk is one of your biggest dreams, like on nearly everyone's bucket list. Growing up for me, I think I was about 13 when my geography teacher first showed me our first, like the first TED talk on YouTube. And I was just like, That TEDx looks amazing. I want a photo there, or at least just be able to attend an event.

And so that was always on my bucket list it's just something that I really, really, really wanted to. And I sort of told myself, I'll do it before I'm 30. That's my goal. Every, every TED talk I've seen, they're all CEOs, executives, celebrities, but my goal before 30, just one TED talk.

Um, so it was always at the back of my mind and to be able to do it earlier than that was just you know, a testament that anything's possible. Really.

Sally: Absolutely. And I work as a TEDx speaker coach for several TEDxs around the country and the most common question I always get asked every time I walk into the room with speakers is, Sally, how do I do this without notes? How do I remember it? What were your strategies to get out there without notes?

Jahin: Well, I think becoming familiar with what I was speaking about, but using as much lived experience that I could because at the end of the day, your TED talk is your story, right? You're not writing something that's completely out of the blue.

And so my entire TED talk for my, at least my first one was my lived experience around identity racism. And that was something I felt all throughout my life. And so being familiar with that, being familiar with the emotions, not necessarily memorizing everything, but memorizing how I felt, understanding, embracing that.

So that even if I was on, on, on stage for about 18 minutes, I didn't need to think of. Okay. What's the next word? What's the next sentence. I just need to think about, Okay. What's the next feeling? What did I feel after this? And that doing that? Obviously practicing practice is instrumental to anything you do in public speaking, but practicing that, how can I join these two feelings together and portray a story and, you know, create that in, in people's minds?

That was my main focus. I did think about memorizing the whole thing. Word for word from like a Word document but then I realized that was just me regurgitating and people can see right through that. And so what I tried to focus on was a few dot points, but also their feelings. What do I want people to feel if I want them to feel sad or, you know, resonate with me from their own lived experience, I'll pause a bit, I'll slow down.

That's the feeling I wanna get. So I think I focused more on that body language side of things in tone of voice, rather than, you know, how we always panic and say, Oh, I need to memorize X, Y, Z, or else I'm gonna suffer. So it was more of that.

Sally: What a brilliant way to go about it. It's not about memorizing what you wrote, instead it's remembering how you felt. So powerful. And have you done two TED talks?

Jahin: Actually, last month I did my third one. So…

Sally: You've done three now, wow!

Jahin: It's it's just surreal. It's hard for me to even articulate properly how it feels, but again, it's just being able to show other young people that it is possible. That's my entire goal.

Sally: So having done three, would you say, have you got like a favorite child? Did it get easier? Is there one that you like more than the other?

Jahin: I think my latest one, I like the most, because of two things. Number one, you know, you have a bit more experience. Those pre-game nerves aren't there as they used to be.

Um, the first one I obviously prepared, second one, I prepared the third one. I just prepared 10 PowerPoint slides and just went off of that. You know, I felt much more comfortable, um, standing there, but also my third one, the topic that I spoke about, was Breathe., was my entire public speaking journey, why I started Breathe., what my motivations are.

And so it's my baby. It's my near very near and dear to my heart. It's what I want to do for the rest of my life in some capacity. But the first one was literally the one that changed my life and career trajectory. And the middle one is just there.

Sally: Oh, so good. So tell us more about Breathe.. First of all, why did you choose that name?

Jahin: Well, the reason I chose Breathe., and trust me, I've had so many different names that went through the door and I asked a lot of people, but I've settled on Breathe. because the principle for me, when it comes to public speaking and the principle I want to share. So allow people to get over that fear is before you do any public speaking or presentation or any form of communicating, when you feel afraid, the most important thing to do is just breathe, right? That's the foundational things taking three deep breaths.

Sally: Yep.

Jahin: Not worrying about anything else, but just calming yourself down. And I think that was the thing that we always miss. We always feel like, oh, do I need to do this? Do I need to use my hands properly? Do I need to stand properly? No. The most important fundamental thing is just breathe. To just settle in.

Sally: Yeah.

Jahin: …calm down.

Sally: Jahir, with you there a thousand percent. Absolutely. And so who are the types of people who are coming into the program? And what's the reason that they're coming into?

Jahin: It started off as my goal for young people, but now it's expanded to anybody who really needs public speaking support, but in the culturally competent lens and, you know, making it accessible.

Um, so we try not to charge at all. If they're not able to provide the budget, but if they're able to sponsor it and, um, obviously corporate brings a lot of that means in, but we try to keep it as accessible as possible so that no matter who you are, no matter what sort of background or struggle you're going through, you're able to have this as accessible as possible.

Sally: Absolutely. And so you talk about the culturally-competent lens. So what are some of the, the unique struggles that people have?

Jahin: Yeah, absolutely. I think the first one that I can pinpoint is for instance, eye contact, right? When it comes to public speaking, where you focus on eye contact, quite heavily intensely make eye contact, look at people.

It's a lot of, it gives you confidence. It allows you to trust the audience, all these things, but when it comes to a lot of cultures, you cannot make eye contact. It's not allowed. You aren't able to make eye contact. It's uncomfortable. It's sometimes rude to be staring at somebody in the eye. But again, when it comes to education in that capacity, that's not taking, you know, into consideration.

It's just hand, body language, eye contact. That's it? That that's, that's how you become a successful public speaker, but in what context, in what lens?

Sally: Yeah. That is such a great example. Is there anything else like that?

Jahin: Yeah. There's men and women and the non-binary side of things. Um, having the comfort levels and also respectability to be in those rooms.

I know, um, in some cultures you, you're not able to be in the same room. You have to be segregated. You can't be in the same context. And so for somebody to speak to as somebody from a different, um, upbringing, and identity, that's very difficult. You can't just put them into the room and, Hey, talk, talk.

There's a lot of cultural things that you have to consider in terms of are they allowed to, is it prohibited? Are they allowed to communicate? Is there a lens on respectability? All these things that we just don't talk about, but it makes them very uncomfortable and sort of in a way increases the fear of public speaking.

And I've had to learn that just from being in different communities, asking friends. Tell me the structure. Tell me the dynamics, and just learning from that continuously. One of the main questions that I asked before we work with any organization or any group is Okay, can you please gimme like a demographic breakdown?

Can you tell me what are the ages, cultures? What are some things to look out for? Because we want to tailor each workshop to be able to meet those needs and not again, let them leave those workshops and be more afraid, right. That that's not what we want. We want them to get over that fear, become confident, but in what lens, what are they looking for? Confidence in what context?

Sally: Yeah. In a way that they can walk out of that room and say, Yes, this can work for me. Rather than it being training, that's at odds with so many things in their lives.

Jahin: Absolutely.

Sally: Um, another thing that I, I hear often, I'm sure you would as well, uh, mindset blocks around English being a second language?

Jahin: Oh, a hundred percent. Like for me, English is my second language as well. Right. I moved to this country when I was about three years old and my first few years in primary school was just like, okay, did I pronounce that right? Did I enunciate it right? You're always overthinking. And I've obviously had the privilege of having my education in this country. So my accent isn't really there as a barrier, but there's a lot of Imposter Syndrome, a sense of not belonging, a sense of, If I speak out, people are gonna make fun of my accent. We've had people come up to us and say, I hate the sound of my voice. But the reality is they, they don't like their accent or they feel insecure about it.

How do we tackle that in a workshop? We can't. So we have more of like a personal support or, you know, we, for instance, I'll reach out to you Sally and say, Hey, what, from your experience, what is something that's worked? So I think that collaboration, you know, I think culture is all about collaboration.

It's all about working together and being able to, you know, overcome hurdles. And I think it, it, it doesn't work in a workshop. It's more of like an ongoing support, an ongoing. learning more than anything. So it's a big hurdle, but it's one that I want to tackle in the next coming years and, you know, build more confidence speakers.

Sally: And you already are. And Jahin you've spoken to TEDx about identity, and this is the thing with voice. It is such a core part of who we are. Every single one of us has an accent. So accepting your voice is so much a part of the whole acceptance of self, you know, in, in all of the ways.

Jahin: Yeah. And I think also like overthinking, that's one of the things that we need to sort of overcome as much as possible.

Those pre-game nerves, those, Oh, are they gonna accept me? Most people don't even care what your accent is! As long as you add value, as long as you're engaging, as long as you're not boring. And that, you can overcome with very fundamental things, like moving around, having fun, engaging with the audience.

Sally: Yeah. Yeah.

Jahin: That's all that matters, right? And I think we need to get over that fear of comparing ourselves with other people and other notable speakers. We all have our own style. Embrace that!

Sally: Absolutely. That's our superpower.

Jahin: Absolutely.

Sally: So what would you say to anybody listening to this who is struggling with public speaking?

Jahin: Being proactive.

So if you want to be a better communicator, public speaker, You need to be very proactive. You need to be hungry to be able to, um, improve that. And so for me, my entire principle around building brave from what it was behind my computer screen at the end of lockdown, to having a team now and being able to establish that is you have to be proactive.

That's why, when, when I reached out to you, Sally, through a LinkedIn message, I was just like, Hey, I've launched this would love to have you as part of my Masterclass. You know, I was like, Sally's very busy. She'll probably never respond back to me, but what's the, what's the downside? There's nothing to lose. Let me just send the message. Let's see what happens!

Sally: Yeah. When you stick your head up or you put your voice out there, you're gonna get rejected.

Jahin: A hundred percent.

Sally: So it's just better to get it over with, if you are, uh, not getting rejected, then you're not putting yourself out there enough. That's something that my coach says to me.

Jahin: Amazing. And, and look where we are now. , we've had a conversation we're on a podcast now after that one LinkedIn message.

Sally: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, these relationships are what is so valuable. Oh, Jahin, thank you so much. Was there anything else you'd like to add?

Jahin: Uh, well I think, um, one thing I always like to end with, especially for the younger audience, so the young people who are trying to overcome their fear of public speaking is the fear and the doubt that we have will always be there. And I love saying this, especially to school students, or early career professionals. The fear will always be there. Those butterflies, the adrenaline will always be there because why? We're human.

Right? When we are trying to progress, we always feel like I wanna get rid of this, but it's not possible. We're human. And so I like to end off with one of my favorite quotes, um, by Brené Brown, who I look up to exceedingly, she's an incredible human being.

Sally: She's awesome.

Jahin: So the quote is: It's not about being less fearful. It's about being more brave.

Sally: Oh, Jahin what a beautiful way to end. It's not about being less fearful. It's about being more brave. Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on That Voice Podcast.

Jahin: Thank you so much for having me.