239. Dress like a speaker
If your clothes could talk, what would they say?
Looks matter - the audience usually sees you before they hear your voice.
In this episode incredible stylist Jane Mow shares -
👗 The 3 questions you need to ask yourself before getting dressed.
👗 The fabric you must avoid on stage.
👗 The number one thing you need in your wardrobe.
👗 What colours to wear on stage.
👗 Why style is about so much more than feeling confident.
Transcript
Hello, welcome to That Voice Podcast. I promised you'll learn here how to speak with style. And today we are talking with an amazing stylist all about how to dress as a speaker. Jane Mow is the epitome of style. She started styling TV presenters 18 years ago and has gone on to style executives and speakers all over the world. And she's a firm believer that what you wear is your business card. When you are up there presenting, people usually see you before they hear you. So if your clothes could speak, what would they say? This episode is fascinating and practical. You'll learn the fabric you must avoid on stage, the colors you need to watch out for, how to bring out your personal brand on stage. And it's about so much more than feeling confident and lots more. So grab a drink and stare at your wardrobe for this one.
Sally:
Jane Mow, it is such a pleasure to have you on that voice podcast looking amazing as always.
Jane:
Thank you so much for having me, Sal. I'm so excited. I've been meaning to reach out to you for so long. Honestly, I've had like a podcast list of people. I'm just like, Okay, Sal would be like a dream. How do I pitch?
Sally:
Oh, and then the universe knocked on my door 'cause I've been wanting to reach out to you as well. And now here we are. It's all happening. What got you into the world of fashion and styling?
Jane:
Oh my gosh, Sal, that was like 18 years ago now. 18 years ago. So I was working in retail at the time and I just happened to pick up the guts to ask a stylist whether I could just shadow her for the day, kind of work out what she did. I was just so curious 'cause she came in to borrow some clothes where I worked at and I was just like, What do you do? Like, what is this whole styling thing? And then she just happened to be, you know, negotiating a massive contract for a major TV network. She needed an assistant. I happened to have been just at the right spot right time and she just said, do you wanna, do you want me to write you into the contract? And I said, Hells yeah, it was a major TV network. And I was like, I was ready, I was ready for a change and it just kind of went from there. So I started off in television being an assistant, then I grew from there. Then I went into being a fashion editor from a for Mine Food Style magazine or Mine Food magazine as everyone knows it. And here I am years later now nicheing into personal brands and dressing CEOs and speakers and you know, all over the world. So it's been quite the journey.
Sally:
Yeah, amazing. So where do you start when somebody comes to you and says, look, I'm a CEO, this is what I'm doing every day. No idea. Look at my wardrobe, don't like anything, help me.
Jane:
Yeah, so I always start with, you know, there's three questions I always ask is like, Who is your audience? Like, what are you trying to say? What are you trying to say with how you dress? How do you want to feel? And how do you want the people that are seeing you to receive you? Okay. So those are the three things. Maybe you could jumble it up, but it's always like, How do you wanna feel? Who is my audience? What am I working into every single day? And then great, how do I want those people to feel? And then from there the wardrobe starts becoming that, you know, we start going on a journey. It is quite a process like with everything I always say to people, your style will never be, you'll never arrive at it. You'll arrive at an iteration of it, but it'll always be in development. It's kind of like, you are in building mode at the moment, right? So you're choosing your interiors for your house.
New Speaker:
Yeah,
Jane:
It's kind of like that you are gonna choose the interiors for a house this time, right? But in 10 years time you might think, oh my gosh, I want like different colors, I want different textures.
Sally:
That's why it's stressful, Jane, because I'm doing the bathroom and I don't wanna have to renovate that for like another good, you know, 20, 30 years. So I'm thinking, will I like this tile?
Jane:
Sell that one but of the property. But what I'm trying to get at is like, you know, you need to allow yourself to explore what your style is now, but also don't be, don't be so scared for it to change in five years, in 10 years or even in a couple years, but it's just gonna be this said, a different iteration of what you already like. That's it.
Sally:
Yeah. Yeah. It's an evolution. And I love the questions. The questions are very similar to what you ask before you start a speech. You know, what am I trying to say?
Jane:
Yeah.
Sally:
How do I want the audience to feel and I being so auditory, I love this idea of if my clothes could talk, what would they say?
Jane:
100%. And you know, one of the things I always run through with in my workshops, in my programs, even with people that I work with one-on-one, it's that what is the story? Try to look at it from the lens of a movie or like a good episode that you like looking at like you like watching on Netflix. Everything that people wear, there's a story behind it. There's a mood that's an emotion that, that someone is trying to evoke. Hence why costume designers exist. You think about Suits for example, the Netflix series Suits compared to something like The Gentleman, it's a very different take on like power dressing, right?
Sally:
Yeah.
Jane:
So you've gotta look at it from like what is the story? What is the mood that these characters are trying to evoke? And what sort of mood am I trying to evoke when I walk on stage? And a lot of people will go, I just wanna feel confident. I wanna feel confident. A lot of my clients always say I wanna look the part. It's always, I wanna look the part, I wanna feel confident.
Sally:
So what is that part? What is that role?
Jane:
Exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, I've worked with everyone from Simone Heng.
Sally:
Yes. Good friend of mine. I spent New Year with her! Love her.
Jane:
So you know, she, she to talks about the loneliness epidemic to corporate, right? And then you've got Denise D. Thomas who have also worked work with and she's a money mindset coach. A very chill, you know, her whole thing is being a chill entrepreneur. So you gotta, you know, think, Okay, so what's the audience I'm walking into? Okay, how do I want them to receive me? For Denise, it's a very different brand. It's a very different personal brand. It's a, I just want them to feel calm and I wanna come across as an approachable person. I want, you know, the room to feel like they can just hang out with me. For Simone, it's a different thing. She's coming in to corporate to talk about loneliness. It's not something that you talk about in corporate. So when she's going in you'll see how she dresses. It's, I will always guarantee you, she will be in a blazer. It's always beautifully tailored, very polished because she's trying to build her credibility. Like this is a serious topic.
Sally:
Yeah, we were speaking about this before we started recording. I feel like I've got a couple of clothing avatars in a way. So my community is Soul Speakers and generally, like right now I'm in, I'm in a long white skirt and a relaxed top. I call it my like Soul Sister wardrobe, you know, the flowy, the long skirts. Then I do corporate workshops as well and media training and I'm in like corporate dresses and then on my website and sometimes, I wear tight leather pants.
Jane:
Mm-Hmm.
Sally:
You know, so I wonder whether it's suiting the environment or whether in some ways it's a bit of a clash of of clarity in terms of what I represent.
Jane:
You could look at it from both ways. I always say to people it's almost like sectioning off your wardrobe, right? So you said to me, my whole ethos is like Soul Speakers, so yeah you are right. You're choosing the right fabric for that. Like flowy, that sort of draping the fabric that communicates that. But you just gotta go, Okay, so, but which section of the market am I speaking to? Am I speaking in corporate or am I going into a conference like for example, Atash Corbin conference. It's very much that like the life coach sort of arena, the entrepreneur arena, you know. So you've just gotta think where, who am I speaking to and how do I need to dress to be able to be relatable to them? And so my question to you, Sal, is majority of your speakers or who you speak to or who you work with is in corporate your target audience? Or is it a bit of both?
Sally:
It's really split. I'd say there's kind of like a B2C uniform and then a B2B uniform. So it's kind of like when I'm sort of coaching and with my business owners and with Soul Speakers and private clients, it's really that flowy sort of thing. But then when I'm going into businesses and doing public speaking workshops or media training, I do dress more corporate and I suppose it's a credibility thing. Like do I feel, you know, walking into a corporation teaching 'em how to speak to the media or speak in front of their team if I'm dressed in something that they wouldn't be speaking in front of their team in.
Jane:
Exactly. That's it.
Sally:
Yeah. I try to sort of dress the way that I would if I was them in their scenario doing their speaking.
Jane:
Yeah, exactly. When it comes to like things on your website, like your photo shoots and things like that, if you want more of those front-facing, being in corporate, going into workshop with corporate, then you would intentionally be in a blazer all the time or in corporate dress and maybe your sales page for your people that you work with on a different capacity. You are in a flowy skirt.
Sally:
Yeah. And one of my favorite outfits is, I call it Business up top, Soul Speaker down bottom, which is like a flowy skirt with a beautiful blazer.
Jane:
When you were saying, oh I do go into corporate but then I'm soulful. That actually that image came into my head. So absolutely embrace the blazer on top, flowy skirt at the bottom.
Sally:
Yeah. And speaking on stage, and I'm really keen to get your thoughts on this, I love the way a skirt moves.
Jane:
A hundred percent.
Sally:
Having movement on a stage is so beautiful and especially that feeds into my whole message about your voice being this expressive, energetic channel.
Jane:
Yeah.
Sally:
And the voice flowing through you and then the skirt flowing as well. What's some advice you could give, and I know it's different for everybody depending on their message, but are there any general style rules for speaking on stage?
Jane:
Yeah, so you know, I would say the major thing is embracing your personal brand. Like having a bit of your personal brand in your outfit. So for example, we all know Erica Kramer, right? The queen of confidence. She is huge on pink everything. Like you go to her website, it's pink, you see her on stage, it's glitter pink. So she's really embraced, like putting in an essence of her personal brand into the way she dresses. And you know, a lot of people they think, Oh, but I should just like go out there and speak my message and I'll be received. The problem with that is you're competing with so many messages through the day. You don't want to be bland, like Sal is saying, she walks on stage and she's got this beautiful skirt. By wearing that, just with that sort of fabric flowing on stage, you're already kind of implanting this like thing in people's mind to remember you by and remember what you said.
Jane:
So it's about being unforgettable, being memorable and a lot of people forget that people are looking at you and also receiving your message at the same time. So you gotta play the two things, visual and audible, right? Your voice and how you look. This is something that I see all the time, especially when I'm at a conference, is fit, the design of a garment, the quality of the garment. I have seen women on stage that have gone to the op shop. Nothing wrong with going to the op shop. Just make sure that whatever you are getting is of a good quality and if it's not of a good quality, please, mend it. You know, a simple thread hanging off your dress or the lining of your skirt coming past the actual hem and you are moving across the stage, that's a distraction to people 'cause all they can think of, oh my God, why is her the lining off her skirt being like that? It's not because your, your skirt is sparkly. There's nothing to do with the sparkles. It's to do with the things that are just off.
Sally:
Out of place. Yeah. I really learned this when I was TV news reporting and it's hard as an, as a regional TV reporter, you're not on very much money. You don't have a wardrobe allowance, different what people might think. And so I was in Portman's a lot. It wasn't too expensive me at the time. But something that I've really noticed on camera is the newness of the quality. So I would always carry a lint roller in my bag. And it's something that I still do now and sometimes people kind of laugh, but you can really see age. Because on a stage you've got lights and everything and there are some things that I just reserve for wearing on stage just to keep their newness and other things. I just know now they're not for stage anymore because they've peeled or they're just getting a bit old or something where in another situation would look fine, but on stage. I'm really glad you raised that. The other I want to ask you about is tightness of clothes. So something that looks great in person on stage will just look a little bit too close for comfort on someone's body.
Jane:
Yep. So this is what some women really struggle with because we, we do wanna feel, we do wanna feel sexy, we don't wanna feel confident. And we're like, yeah, I'm just like, wearing this outfit, I'm feeling good. Okay. So just like on camera and just like on stage everything gets amplified. So if you are feeling a little bit bloated that day, we are going to see it. Right? So if you wanna wear that tight dress, of course wear that tight dress, but make sure you've got shapewear underneath it. Okay. And I know a lot of people are like, Oh, but I don't wanna feel uncomfortable. Here's the thing, tight dress or shapewear or don't wear the tight dress. If you are up there and people are also taking pictures of you or video recording of you, you are going to see that later and not gonna feel good about yourself. And it's, it's just gonna be distracting for your audience as well, 'cause all they can see is the curves and things like that. Nothing wrong with that, but there's a lot of people who are gonna be sitting in the audience going, Why is her dress so tight? Why can't I see her undies? Why can I da, da da? That's all they're thinking the whole time.
Sally:
Well, she might be less inclined to, you know, have full breaths needed for speaking because you're trying to hold it all.
Jane:
Exactly.
Sally:
In like movement's. Another thing I've had somebody recommend something for speaking and to be fair, they were just somebody at the store who doesn't really, you know, know. But I'm like, Yeah, that might, that looks good with my arms down in front of a mirror, but if I'm going to gesture or something, I'm gonna take someone's eye out with the button between my boobs. Like it's just gonna.
New Speaker:
Yeah. It's gonna go fly out.
Sally:
Fly out. That is not gonna be a good outcome. So you need to have something that you can walk in, that you can move in. One of my really long skirts goes to the floor. And what I love about it is I can wear sneaker style shoes. And I can move so freely, but because it's the skirt touches the floor, you can't see it very clearly.
Jane:
Yeah. The other thing I would say is make sure that you, you have some sort of an idea of what that stage is gonna look like. If's a dark background, which most stages are, I usually put my clients who have spoken at Google to wherever else, if it's a dark stage, I put them in color or I put them in white and people are like, Oh, but white is gonna, you know, what if there's camera da da da. But the thing is the audience needs to see you. If you are in black, you're gonna sink into the background and you gotta think if you are speaking to a large audience, how many seats back do you want people to receive you? If they can't see you, it's very distracting. They're trying to figure out where you are. So yeah, color is massive.
Sally:
What about speaking on stage, you talked about having good quality fabrics. Are there any fabrics that you would absolutely avoid?
Jane:
Linen. Do not wear linen. Only because it wrinkles. You always wanna have a blend, but linen blazers for some reason it's like, I know that Australia sells a lot of that and a lot of hot countries, but when you do get on stage, the wrinkle doesn't fall off. It just, it's permanently there for the day. So if you're networking after being on stage, all people can see is how wrinkled and how worn out your outfit is.
Sally:
That's a really good tip. Okay. So avoid linen. What are some ones that look really great on stage?
Jane:
I love wool. Okay. And a lot of people go, Oh, but wool is really hot. No it's not. So wool breathes in winter and summer depending on the quality of wool that you're getting. So I'm not talking about a cheap wool, you're gonna have to go up in price point. I've got clients up in Queensland who wear wool, but it's because a good quality designer garment. So I am not saying wool in black, I'm saying wool in, you know, it could be a little bit of sheen on it. In pink, red, blue again depending on the audience that you are walking into. Yeah.
Sally:
'Cause I suppose like polyester, a lot of people wear a lot of that and that's extremely hot
Jane:
Polyester doesn't breathe. Again. As you go up the food chain of brands and the quality, you're gonna get a different level of polyester. But if you're gonna get polyester from Zara, don't expect it to, you know, to breathe that much.
Sally:
Yeah, absolutely.
This is a great spot to remind you. It doesn't matter what you say or to who you say it to, if you are not connected to your voice, people can feel it. This is why you need the Magnetic Voice formula. If you're a Soul Speaker, it's in the portal. If not link is in the show notes.
Sally:
Talking about sticking to your brand and that kind of thing. There's nothing wrong with repeating outfits on stage. There are some speakers who sort of have a speaking uniform and they literally wear the same thing for every gig.
Jane:
Yep. That's what I create for my clients. Like we have a wardrobe just for speaking, so speaking, networking. After speaking, if they were gonna go into you know, meet up with speakers or people of the, or in the audience, like a VIP thing that, you know, if they're going to dinner events and stuff like that, it's having that tailored wardrobe again. You wanna keep it new, like you said sell, like don't be wearing it over and over, you have to have a rotation, but you can literally have a uniform that you're known for. The only other thing I would say, if you are on stage and you're getting, you're getting photos on stage, you'll see this with Simone Hank, you try to mix it up. Mm.
Sally:
Otherwise it can look like it's all from the same gig.
Jane:
Yeah, yeah. BecauseOyou might be, you know, she talks about speaking in Dubai and then she talks about speaking in Berlin or whatever it is. So like there has to be a difference otherwise people are like, oh, but didn't you just speak in the same outfit in Dubai?
Sally:
Clothes fit in the suitcase, you know, they come on the plane.
Jane:
And you also on your sorry, marketing collateral. You wanna have difference?
Sally:
Yeah. Oh course. Yeah, for sure. If you could invest in just one statement piece for speaking engagements, what would it be?
Jane:
Oh, it is a beautiful cut blazer. I mean, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I know Sal, you're like, Yeah, but what if full women who have broad shoulders and bigger bust? Then your trick is a sleeveless blazer. Okay. Because it allows room for your shoulders and it allows room for your bust. A beautiful cut blazer could be something that's so asymmetrical, it's like out of the norm. It's not something that you just find down the street, you know what I mean? Like you've really researched, you've invested in this piece that lapel sits a bit different. There's some sort of, I don't know, 3D element to it and you just feel like you are, you know, you're another world when you wear it. So I would, that to me is the trick.
Sally:
Love it. What about accessories?
Jane:
Ooh. Okay. So depending on if you're mic'd up, you know, if you're holding a mic or if a mic is on your person, then I wouldn't be avoiding anything. I wouldn't be avoiding a necklace. Like I just avoid all that. I'm like, I would rather a beautiful pair of earrings than a necklace. I would say no to a bracelet. Sorry, bracelet people.
Sally:
Yeah, because they jingle.
Jane:
Yeah, they jingle and they just get in the way at the top of you, the top half of you needs to be clean, a clean jiggle-free so that it allows for the audio people to capture your voice and your message and you don't wanna be fiddling.
Sally:
Patrick got me this beautiful set from Origin of earrings and a necklace. I'm not wearing it now, but obviously I'm wearing it online a little bit and I don't think he was thinking of this at the time, but what's so great about the necklace is that it sits it sits flat and it doesn't move at all.
Jane:
Yeah. So it's a heavy necklace, right?
Sally:
It's a heavy necklace. And it's, and I was thinking it's really good for speaking because it's higher than where the lapel would be normally and it just doesn't move.
Jane:
So in that instance, of course, but a lot of people have the, you know, the lighter necklace, you know, with a lot more things on it and it just moves. So, you know, again, it's Origin, you know, like you said. So the quality is there, like in terms of just sitting on your person. And that's the same with like showing up for like TV interviews, right? They usually will say, don't wear a necklace.
Sally:
Jane, how can people work with you and contact you and get all of these fashion secret?
Jane:
You can connect with me on Instagram @JaneMowStylist is my handle on Instagram. I work with clients worldwide, both remote with my one-on-one service. And I also run workshops. We have a workshop coming up in April called the Unforgettable Style Workshop. We've got a lot of speakers that come to that. So it's about really honing in on your message and how you can be remembered and an unforgettable style that's gonna be iconic for you.
Sally:
Amazing. Jane, thank you so much for coming on That Voice Podcast.
Jane:
Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. It's been amazing. And thank you for your beautiful questions. I'm like, yeah, you really made me think.