82. Overcoming a fear of public speaking

How do you go from an intense fear of public speaking to confidently speaking 2-3 times a week in a CEO role? Ali Davenport did just that. In this episode, Ali shares her story and the practical strategies she uses to calm nerves, own the stage and feel great public speaking.

Transcript

Sally:

Hello, hello! Welcome to Episode 82 of That Voice Podcast. My guest today is Ali Davenport. Ali is the CEO of TSBE, which stands for Toowoomba and Surat Basin Enterprise. And I met Ali a few weeks back when I came in to run a media training workshop for the team. Ali, of course, smashed it out of the park with her mock interviews. So when we got chatting, I was really surprised to hear that Ali had a serious fear of public speaking. And she said, the reason she's so good at it now is because she found a coach and developed strategies that work for her. Music to my ears, as you can imagine! Now, I know you might be listening because you have a fear of public speaking. You might think, "Oh, you know, that's it, I'm just not a good speaker done and dusted." Well, listen closely to this episode because Ali is proof that with a good coach and practical strategies, you can overcome your fear of public speaking and it's so worth it.

Sally:

You know, time and time again, in our conversation, Ali says this fear was holding her back in her life and her career, and she admits she almost didn't apply for her current CEO role because of it. Ali shares how incredibly grateful she is to have tackled this fear head on she's in the best role of her career. Public speaking, two to three times a week, and getting her message heard by the state's top decision makers. So the transformation is just awesome. And look, if you want to have this transformation, the best place to start is My Six Week Voice Makeover. I'm kicking off the next round on July 5. If you want a premium spot, which includes a one-to-one with me at the start and the end of the course, then get in touch directly because they are almost filled. I'm releasing tickets to the public very soon. So if you can relate to what Ali shares in this episode, and you want those strategies, then join My Six Week Voice Makeover. Details are in the show notes or message me on Instagram @sallyprosservoice. Okay. Let's dive in.

Sally:

Ali Davenport. Thank you so much for coming on That Voice Podcast.

Ali:

Nice to be here. Thank you very much for inviting me!

Sally:

Now, Ali, take us through what your role is now and how much public speaking is involved.

Ali:

So I'm the CEO of Toowoomba and Surat Basin Enterprise. We're an economic development organization based up in Toowoomba and I have to speak in public or I get to speak in public probably around two, maybe three times a week. And for me in the past, that would have been absolutely impossible, but now I can do it and I can do it quite comfortably.

Sally:

Wow, about three times a week. And I love that little mindset shift with not have to, but get to. Where did this fear of public speaking come from do you think?

Ali:

I just thought I could never do it. I've sort of had a problem. Most of my life I get in public and a freeze or, you know, my voice starts quivering my hands start shaking. I can't think clearly. And so I just figured that, you know, there's two groups of people, there's ones that can do it and ones that can't. And I was in the latter category. But then probably one day I realized how much it was holding me back. So my previous roles were in media. I used to run radio and television stations and I also ran newspapers up in regional Queensland. And part of the role is being up in front of people and speaking in public. And I just realized how much it was holding me back, not being able to do this. So I decided to get some help.

Ali:

And now, I'm actually good. And I'm pleased that I can actually do this. The experiences that you have in your life add up to whether you think you can do something or whether you think you can't. For me, I guess I'd had a few bad experiences when I was younger and I just figured I couldn't do it. And I just had that mindset that I couldn't, and didn't think there was any opportunity for me to ever change. But now with practice, but also with the right processes that I do before I speak in public, I can confidently speak wherever and whenever.

Sally:

Yeah. And I'm so excited to talk more about what those strategies are. But before that, just, if you could elaborate a bit more on how you felt you were held back by not being able to speak. And it's also quite interesting that you were in media because usually that's where you find quite extroverted, confident people.

Ali:

That's it! Well, I think it's funny because a lot of people now they say, "Oh, the reason that you can speak in public is because you were in media." And it's like, yeah, but I was behind the scenes, you know. Managing radio stations or TV stations. Then occasionally I would be on camera, and I'd have to get up in front of clients and things like that, but I didn't do a great deal of it. So, whereas now I'm up doing keynote speeches, emceeing events at Parliament House in front of 400 people. No issues. But back then, I never have been able to do that.

Sally:

Yeah. And do you think you could do your role now without the public speaking?

Ali:

No, I definitely could not. And it's funny, the person that I took over from is an amazing public speaker. It was one of the reasons I almost didn't take on the role was the amount of public speaking that it had. And also the fact that he was so amazing. I thought I could never, I could never do what he does. And so it almost caused me to not take on this role, which is such a shame because it's, by far, it's the best job I've ever had. It's the best organization I've ever worked with. It's incredible. So the lack of public speaking was definitely something that was holding me back.

Sally:

And was there a moment that you can remember where you thought, "Right, this is ridiculous. I've just got to find a way to be able to have the confidence to go and do it."

Ali:

I think that might've been about maybe five or six years ago. And it was when I was managing radio and TV stations in Toowoomba. And I think I had to get up in front of clients and I just, I could. I did it, but I got, I used to try and sit down as quickly as I possibly could so that no one would realize how bad I was at actually speaking in public. And then yeah, one day I just went, "Oh, this is ridiculous. You know, like surely, surely there's people out there that can help me with this. And surely I can learn how to do this. And even if I can't be brilliant at it, at least I can be confident and it won't hold me back." And so I got some professional help, you know, join Toastmasters. I probably did bits and pieces and I certainly became a little bit better. But I never really overcame my fear until I got some proper help, which was maybe three years ago, actually when I first started in this role. But there was that moment where it was like, "Oh, come on, this is ridiculous. How can I, how can someone that is good in so many other areas of their work life have this one thing that holds them back?"

Sally:

Yeah, I love that. See everybody listening, public speaking coaching is a thing and it actually works.

Ali:

I wish I'd met you years ago. Honestly, I actually got help from somebody else. But the things that she taught me, other things that you teach, which is amazing. So, anyone out there that's listening that thinks "Oh, you know, maybe a coach won't help me." That's what you need. That is exactly what you need. You need to, one-on-one help with someone who can take you through what your blockages are, what your issues are and just explain it and simplify what the issues are. And also just some strategies. Cause that's all, that's all I needed was just something that I could rely on so that if I had to speak in public, which I do a lot, as I said, that I could comfortably and confidently do it and be consistently good.

Sally:

Yeah. I love that. So we've got a speaking gig coming up and you've put together some strategies. What are the things that you're doing in the lead up to the event?

Ali:

Well, I think first of all, one of the biggest things to overcome is to understand is that public speaking fear is absolutely normal. So, you know, it derives from our distant, distant past, you know, caveman days where if you got up in public and you stuck your head up and you said something loud, then either a saber tooth tiger or an arrow was headed your way. So what happens to us physiologically when we speak in public is normal. I.e. we get the shakes, you know, the blood rushes away from our head, rushes to our extremities so we can get the hell out of there as fast as we can. So I think that the first step is understanding that that fear is normal and that the people that can speak in public are just people that have overcome that fear. It's not an impossible thing for you to to be one of those people that can actually speak in public.

Ali:

So I think that's the first thing that really helped me, but then also in the leader, if there was one thing to learn and learn well, it's deep breathe. So breathe deeply, I should say. So deep breathing is probably the one single tactic that if I had nothing else up my sleeve, that is the one thing I would use every single time. To calm my heart rate and keep the blood flowing to my head where it needs to be, because I need to be able to think clearly and keep my voice even, and keep my hands from shaking, et cetera. So deep breathing and it's not just taking really big breaths. It's actually breathing out through the belly. Breathing correctly. And, Sally, I know you teach people how to do this. Is that, that's correct? Isn't it?

Sally:

Absolutely Ali. And I've actually got a speaking gig tonight. I'm speaking at a university dinner. Just a bit of context, this won't play for a couple of weeks, but it's about 11 o'clock in the morning. And my speech, this the same thing at about five o'clock and I'm starting to feel nervous.

Ali:

Yeah, right.

Sally:

I'm starting to feel nervous. And I am doing exactly as you're saying-- breathing. Even if you do it professionally, you still get that feeling and you still need all these strategies to go to. So yet low and deep. And I always say, imagine your buttocks or your lungs to try to get that air away from your shoulders.

Ali:

Think of your belly as a balloon and the spout of the balloon is your belly button. So you're actually trying to breathe in and out of your belly button. So it's really an iOS thing it's low and slow, low and slow. And if you can slow your breathing down, but take proper breaths, because most of us don't breathe correctly. Then it actually, it tricks your brain or it's just, it tricks your brain into thinking that everything's fine. Because actually everything is fine. And that's the other thing is, whilst the fear is normal, it's irrational in today's society. So whilst our caveman days, it was, it was normal. It was natural to be, you know, keep low. Keep a low profile. Don't be loud, don't be speaking in public. Whereas today it's the opposite. It can hold your career back because if you can't speak in public, how can you be a very good leader?

Ali:

It's very hard to be a good leader when you can actually get it up in front of people and lead them. You're feeling nervous before your event tonight. I always do as well. So last week I spoke at Parliament House in Brisbane.

Sally:

Yeah, how did it go?

Ali:

Oh, great! I woke up in the morning though with like, "Okay, big event tonight”. But so for me, anytime I feel nervous about it is when you start doing the deep breathing and you can do it when you're driving the car. You can do it when you're eating, when you're standing up, when you're in the shower, just do some deep breathing. But for me also, it's about keeping a positive frame of mind. So whenever I have a big event that day it's, I have to make sure that I'm in a positive frame of mind. So I don't do anything stressful that day. You know, I don't have any big meetings. I try and clear my calendar as much as I possibly can so that nothing can throw me off my balance. And also I love listening to really positive music, you know, songs that just make you feel great. I do a lot of that on the days of those events, because you want to walk in there feeling great and nothing gets you into that mood like music.

Sally:

Oh, totally agree. So I've got this presentation tonight. I've been to the gym and our chat today is the only thing on the calendar.

Ali:

Exactly.

New Speaker:

Normally on Thursdays, I would teach. And I think that this is a really big thing, especially for busy executives. You know, if you are CEO of a big organization, if you can clear your calendar to get into the right frame of mind for a big speaking event, then anybody can. You know, so it's about making those choices and not just seeing the event as you know, it starts at five o'clock. I have to have a shower by four. No, no, no. Give yourself a lot more hours beforehand. And that leads to my next question. So, what are some things that you're doing when it's closer to the time?

Ali:

Normally, as I said, I'll get into that positive frame of mind. The other thing I'll do is I try and pre-inspect the room. So if I can get there an hour before, or even if it's 10, 15 minutes before and stand up on the stage where I'm going to be. And speak into the microphone and look out at the chairs or whatever the audience, wherever the audience is likely to be and visualize them there. Then I actually feel more comfortable when I actually step on the stage. So the pre-inspection is actually really good. And also I make sure that I eat properly that day. So for me, it's low carb, high protein, so that I don't feel hungry. Sometimes butterflies, you know, the butterflies you get when you're nervous, can feel like hunger pangs or hunger pangs can feel like butterflies. So you want to make sure that you're not hungry in any shape or form.

Ali:

So I tend to eat more on the day of an event. The other thing I do is I make sure that I feel really connected to the audience. And the way to do that for me is around doing a little bit of meditation where you feel fully grounded and fully connected. So I do a lot of acknowledging the body parts out loud. I don't know whether you, I don't know if there's a name for that but there probably is, but it's about feeling really connected in yourself. So that when you're speaking, you're speaking to the audience, you feel like you're connected to them because we've all been to those events where, you know, someone's speaking and it feels like they're talking right over the top of you rather than to you.

Sally:

Yeah. And I believe that begins with feeling connected to yourself. So I do a lot of work around grounding, feeling your fingertips, breathing, feeling that air go into your body. Because one of the main reasons I think that people seem disconnected from the audiences when they're speaking is because they're disconnected from themselves. Like they probably, you know how sometimes you say a speech and you think, I don't even remember that. You know? And so if you're not even in your own body, how can you connect with the audience?

Ali:

That's exactly right. And that's where anchoring, you know, when you touch something and you feel like you're touching something, it's amazing what this can do, what it can actually do when you can feel connected to yourself and feel connected to the ground and the world around you, then you can feel connected to the audience. Cause that's the other thing that I do too, is I remind myself that when I'm speaking, it actually has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with the audience. Like I am there for them, and this has not got anything to do with me. apart from I'm a conduit, you know, I'm a conduit for either a good thing for the audience or bad thing, depending on how I'm feeling. So that's where I take it very seriously. All of the speaking opportunities that I get, because it's a privilege for me to be there.

Ali:

And if you think of it that way, that you can reframe it as well. You think of it as an opportunity, as a privilege rather than arts or chore, or I'm going to hate this, or I'm going to, I'm going to look silly. Or I actually learnt that the first time that I had to speak at Parliament House in Brisbane, and we had, I think we had 400 people there and I was honestly, I was almost hyperventilating beforehand. I was probably maybe an hour before I went on. And then I just did all my process, you know, breathing and all of that. I move all the rest of it. But then I thought to myself too, I thought, "Who gets the opportunity to do this?" You know, what a rare opportunity to get up in front of 400 people at Parliament House and talk about our region to the politicians, but to all these people that are here, I reframed it in my head. Instead of it being a stressful event for me, I thought of it as a great opportunity for our region. And I was able to do a really good job.

Sally:

Absolutely. I have a 7 Mindset Hacks to Speak with Confidence. So anyone listening, that's a free download. You can get from my website. And that's a big one, which is the approaching speaking gratitude. And that idea of "I get to" not "I have to". And isn't it amazing that we can, especially with what you do have these big audiences with decision-makers and be able to really connect with them because there are so many people who just don't have that opportunity and don't have a voice to use. And also I like that act of service. I always say, "Get off me me island."

Ali:

Yeah. I agree. Honestly, Sally, I wish I'd met you. If I'd met you years ago, I would have knocked years of my self-help trying to find information from all different sources. The way that you teach people would have been so beneficial to me, but I've come there the long way round. And I'm so glad to have met you.

Sally:

Oh, Ali. That's so lovely. And I'm so happy we met as well, because I think it's such a powerful story. If you're listening to this and you are feeling that you are being held back because of these fears that you have listened to what Ali's saying, it is a really normal thing to feel. And there are strategies that you can use. And one of those strategies that you haven't mentioned, but I particularly love is putting your head upside down.

Ali:

Oh yeah, absolutely. I do that maybe about 15 minutes before I go on, I tend to lock myself away in a toilet stall and I do the deep breathing, but then I also, yeah. Tip my head upside down for maybe a couple of minutes and do the deep breathing that way. And the blood rushes to your head and slowly come back up, stretch out the spine. And it's amazing how good you feel. That was one of the strategies that I was told a number of years ago, and boy, it works. What actually is it Sally? Cause you know, you do this as well, don't you?

Sally:

We think of our voice often as our throat, our voice box, but our whole entire body is our voice. And so by hanging the head upside down, I call it "rebuilding the tower". So you're hanging upside down really freely. And then vertebrae by vertebrae, by vertebrae, that's a bit of a tongue twister you slowly build up. And the last thing is your head. And I just find it a really good exercise to get in touch and center and feel every part of your body. I feel like it's an exercise in physical alignment. So again, you can't really breathe if you're all hunched over. But also getting present in the body.

Ali:

Well, you've just made sense of something that I have been doing for a long time! So, thank you for that.

Sally:

Yeah. And I think that that's such a great, that simple message to remember is that our voice is our whole body. One thing I'd love to ask because I've been getting this question so much this week and I thought, yes, I can ask Ali this great question. So we've done a lot of strategies to get up to the speech. What happens if you are mid speech and something goes wrong, like you just have a mental block or someone really distracts you or you feel like you're losing it. What do you do in that moment while it's happening?

Ali:

Honestly, I think the strategies that I've gotten now mean that I don't actually get rattled during the speech. What tends to happen is I'm normally nervous right up until it's about to happen. And then when I get up on the stage, it's like everything kind of clears out and I'm fine. In terms of your question about how, if, if something throws me off, nothing actually normally throws me off, like things go wrong, you know, the sound won't work or something doesn't happen that you expected. But because I feel so good and feel so normal up there and feel so relaxed. It doesn't unsend to me.

Sally:

Yeah. All of that pre-work gives you that resilience. Quickly for me tonight. I'm just thinking, what I will do is if I I'll be fine, it's only a 25-minute speech. But I would just go and get a drink of water. And I probably will have a copy of my speech just on my table. It's a dinner. So if, I guess if worse came to worse, I could just walk over there. I also have a couple of emergency TikToks in my slide show, so I can always just play a video if something happens!

Ali:

That's a good idea. Yeah. I actually, I don't think I mentioned the water. The nutrition is really important, but for me drinking a lot of water cause you know, your mouth dries out when you're speaking in public because of the nerves, all of those sort of things. So I drink gallons and gallons before I go on. And that way my mouth never actually gets dry.

Sally:

You don't need to go to the toilet?

Ali:

Oh yeah. Normally straight after I'm off the stage! But uh, but it is a really good strategy because you know, you can hear people's mouth get dry during your speech. And that doesn't happen to me. So.

Sally:

I know. And especially when I wear like this really like ultra stay red lipstick does not help with the mouth drying.

Ali:

That's it! Draws the lips out, that's for sure.

Sally:

Great. And so what about after the speech? Do you just totally forget it and move on? Or do you have any process that you go through afterwards?

Ali:

The goal for any speech is to be better than you were before. So now when I get off stage I'm, I tend to not have to debrief with myself because I know that I've done a pretty good job, but before, you know, when I was sort of still learning and still going through my processes of how to improve, I would always debrief and I would never beat myself up. If I'd done something wrong, I would just always think, "Okay, next time, this is what I'm going to do." Because I think part of the psychology of why people don't think they can't speak well in public is if they've had a bad experience in the past, I used to spend a couple of minutes on stage and then a couple of days beating myself up for what I hadn't done correctly or what have you. So I made a conscious decision not to do that, but just to use every speaking opportunity as a learning opportunity. And that's where I've now refined what I do beforehand so that I know if I do my process, you know, the deep breathing and the drinking, and the water, and the positive frame of mind, all of those things. If I do all of those things, then I know I'm going to do a good job.

Sally:

Yeah. I love that. I think it's especially in my nature to beat myself up a bit and that's something I really try to work on. I sometimes visualize that it's my eight-year old self that I'm giving feedback to, to be a bit nicer, but often I'll just say to my partner or my friend or someone else who's there. "Can you just tell me how great that was? Can you just tell me it was really, really cool?" Because it is hard, isn't it? To, not do that, especially with what we're doing, we've always got the next, the next gig. And I think that that is a positive because it means that we're always practicing. So the more speaking opportunities you can say yes to the better, because you're, it's constantly a more familiar thing you're doing and you can keep refining.

Ali:

I think that's where the whole process, like once you get your strategies, then you've got to keep doing it. You've got to keep every week you've got to, or every fortnight, you've got to do something where you're up in front of people and you are practicing the skills that you're now learning. So I cannot recommend to people enough about take the opportunities. If someone asks you, then just do it. Just say yes and work out how you're going to do it afterwards.

Sally:

Such great advice. And Ali, how can people contact you if they want to get in touch?

Ali:

I'm happy to help anybody or talk to anybody about their fears in public speaking. Just email me. My email is Ali, ali@tsb.com.edu. But if anybody wants some support on how to speak well in public, they should go to you, Sally. Honestly, you know, you did some media training with us the other day, but from what I've also researched, you're doing exactly what it's taken me years and years and years to learn how to do. So you can help people that need help now.

Sally:

Oh, thank you. And yes, I guess it's taken me a little bit of time as well of realizing these are just the things I've done my whole life. And they've always worked for me. And now it's such a privilege to be able to share them with others. And when people say, "Wow, Sal, it really worked!" I'm like, "Yes, I know!" I don't do this for fun.

Ali:

Exactly. That's the thing is I've helped a couple of people, too. And they've just, they've been like, "Oh, that's amazing. You know, this is incredible." And it's like, no, but if I can speak in public, anybody can, because my fears were huge. My inability to do it properly was real. Anyone can do it, it's a learned skill. It's not a natural ability that most people have. If it's holding you back, don't let it. I see a lot with women and it breaks my heart. You know, don't let this one little thing that you can overcome with a little bit of strategies, a little bit of practice, a little bit of training. Don't let this hold you back from having a great career or having just a fulfilling life where you can feel like you can do whatever you think you can't do. So I could not urge people enough to just get out and get in front of this fear because you can do it.

Sally:

Well said, Ali. Thank you so much for coming on That Voice Podcast.

Ali:

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Sally.