115. Unlock the power of your vagus nerve

Geez, you've got a nerve!

And the big one is the vagus nerve. In this incredibly informative episode Physiotherapist Jessica Maguire explains what our vagus nerve is, how it affects our voice and simple, practical ways to activate it.

If you're new to the vagus nerve this episode will be life changing. You'll leave with a whole bunch of tools to manage stress and speak with confidence and flow.

Transcript

Hello. Welcome back to That Voice Podcast! A big welcome if you're here for the first time, do I have an episode for you? I am so excited to have you here. This episode is so informative. It's so interesting. And you will not be the same person after you listened to this. It's all about unlocking the power of your vagus nerve.

And if you've never heard of the vagus nerve, no worries. Because my wonderful guest, Jessica Maguire, explains it all. So Jess is a physiotherapist and she has a wealth of clinical knowledge and experience, and I love that she shares so many practical resources through her social media and her online workshops.

jessicamaguire.com if you can't wait to look her up. I first met Jess because she did my Speak from your Soul course last year, If you are sick or feeling sick about speaking, and you want to feel the joy of tapping into your true voice and using it as a channel to share your truth, then I would love to invite you inside the course. We get started on May 8th, 2022. So if you're listening to this before, then, then click on the link in the show notes, read more about it and listen to your intuition. If you're feeling called to make a change, maybe you want to fix or fortify your relationship with your voice, then let's do it. Come and join us. The link is in the show notes.

In today's episode with Jessica Maguire, you'll learn what the vagus nerve is, how it affects your voice and speaking, and practical exercises. Things you can do to engage this powerful nerve. We also talk about the benefits of a good cry. Let's dive in.

Sally: Jessica Maguire. Welcome to that voice podcast.

Jess: Thank you so much for having me, Sally.

Sally: Great to have you here. First question is how did you get in to studying the vagus nerve?

Jess: Yes. Well, it's a little bit of a long twisted tale, but I started working with a, as a physiotherapist about 13 years ago. But before that I had done my first degree, which was looking a lot at the heart and the beats of the heart.

So I was always studying the vagus nerve, but didn't quite know back then. Um, what I know obviously now, and I ended up working with a lot of people with chronic health conditions, so chronic pain, but when they were stressed, they would also have say migraines, insomnia, gut issues, but their emotional health wasn't so great either.

So I knew there was this reflection of when pain got worse, there was stress, and I was fascinated about really understanding that. Modern pain science at the time was showing us how we can't separate the brain and the body. So we might think, oh, I've got a sore elbow, but what will actually. Change the level of pain that we feel is how we speak to ourselves about it, our thoughts about it, and even factors like what's going on around outside of us can affect our nervous system.

So I always was fascinated about understanding that whole big picture rather than just looking at things through biomedical lens. And so I went on to study. After I'd been working with patients for many years, more looking at the brain neuroplasticity, neuroscience and trying to really get that connection of what exactly was this mind, body connection from a science point of view.

And as the research went more and more, the vagus nerve really reflected to be that epicenter of the mind body connection and the science behind it is fascinating in how we might behave the way that it shows up in the way that we speak or, or the thoughts that we have, but also from my point of view, it was mostly looking at the way that it affected people's health.

Um, like they got like their immune system, um, because it's so big that it has a lot of different functions.

Sally: Wow. The epicenter of the mind body connection. I love that I've always referred to the vagus nerve as like the Las Vegas nerve, because it's the one that parties all over the body. It's like,

Jess: I love that!

Sally: It was a way to remember it for people who are new to this wonderful nerve what is it?

Jess: Yeah, sure. So it's not just wonder if we really couldn't look at it as a series of connections, it's several nerves. It's on both sides of our body and it starts out in the brainstem, which is if you ran the hand down the back of your head, you'd feel those a bony Ridge.

So sort of in that area, if we went in that's the lowest center, which would be our brainstem connecting into our spinal cord. Um, but also it comes down from there and it connects to our heart. So we have, what's called our vagal brake that slows our physiology down a little bit. We have a branch that comes down into our gut.

So it's very closely linked to, you know, our, our gut will mirror what's happening with our psychological health. And then we have another branch that makes up our social engagement system. So this runs from the heart and it comes up and innovates the muscles to do with speech and communication. It comes up to the middle ear muscles.

And it even innovate or ties in with the cranial nerves, which influence the muscles of expression on our face. So when somebody's vagus nerve is working or active engaged, we can hear it in their voice. We can see it on their face. And even in those gestures of how they'll express themselves is certainly tying in with that.

It even how we listen is connected to it.

Sally: Wow. It is so fascinating. I guess it's why it ties into us having a gut feeling about things.

Jess: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because mostly its fibers run from the body up to the brain. So 80% of that, if it's, if it's communication is telling our brain about what's happening in the gut and things like that.

And we think so much like the brain is like this commander or in charge and sits up at the top. But what we're seeing now in the science is that what's happening in the body is a mirror of the brain and vice versa. So we really can't separate things.

Sally: Yeah. And I'm really interested to hear more about how you can hear in the voice in someone's speaking, whether or not the vagus nerve is activated.

Jess: Yeah. Okay. So we could look at the different states of the nervous system, a little bit like traffic lights, and we could say in the green state, that's when our vagus nerve is working or engaged. Now, when we're in this state, we're really primed for communication. So, what will happen is the vagus nerve will be connecting to those muscles to do with speech and communication.

And so somebody's voice will actually have a lot of prosody. So we might think that from listening to, I don't know, yoga trainings and things that somebody's car, when they have a soft, whispery voice like this, but the actual thing that indicates that somebody is in a regulated state or their nervous system is the, is the prosody and that pitch.

So the change in rhythm, and if you think about these, parents do it intuitively right with babies or people do it with their pets and they start talking in this thing. So new. So they really want to get that connection with a baby or another another or an animal. So we do this anyway, and that prosody is, can be regulating.

Sally: And how would you describe the word prosody?

Jess: It would be the variation really in rhythm and pitch. So if it had that up and down factor to it. So when we know that somebody might be stressed or they move into say that yellow state of the nervous system in the traffic light, but the middle. So the orange, we might hear an angry voice like this, where it's more monotone or we might hear, which I'm sure we can all relate to if we've ever spoke publicly having that high pitched voice where we might take a few breath, every few words.

So we lose the prosody of the ups and the downs. Yeah. If we go into what we call the red state, which is a immobilization response, when we're really scared or some people freeze, we may find that we can't communicate at all just from the inhibition of the vagus nerve.

Sally: And would you say that's a lot to do with the freedom and flow of the breath with the work I do when people's pitch goes up really, really high, it's kind of like we're tubes of toothpaste and it's like, the tension gets squeezed and squeezed and squeezed, and the voice sort of pops out at the top, but we're able to get that melody and that intonation a lot more freely if we've got the breath flowing behind. So would you say that that breathing and the vagus nerve are very closely related?

Jess: Absolutely Sally. Yep. So we can see it when somebody's breaths will mirror the state of their nervous system, which can just be if I get scared or if I'm relaxed. So that's immediate that that happens. But also yes, as, as we can say, I love that analogy that you use with the toothpaste where it just like great.

So, um, if we can get some. Control over the breaths, which is normally an involuntary process, then we can help to certainly have that effect on our voice and bring it back to have more prosody for sure.

Sally: Nice. So what are some breathing exercises that people could do to help bring that vagus nerve? Would you say, how would you describe it to activate the nerve?

Is that what it is?

Jess: Yeah, we can say activate. We can say engage. A good place to start is really looking at matching the inhalation exhalation. And studies have shown that if we want to optimize what we might call heart rate variability, which is just a fancy measurement, which looks at getting the beats of the heart to reflect the vagus nerve working. We'd look for around 5.5 breaths per minute. If we could do say a breath in for even beginning with four seconds, five seconds, and then out for four seconds, five seconds. Say if we're looking at people who were going to speak. Doing this beforehand can be really useful. But, um, a tool that I think is really good as well is if you are in that time where you are speaking and you're live.

It's actually trying to say more words before you take a breath in, because it almost mimics like a, um, deep breath out, which is where we know.

Sally: Speaking on the out-breath. This is what I always talk about. Thinking in breath, speak on the out-breath. Yeah. You're so right.

Jess: Yes. So sometimes we focus on trying to get in, especially if we get a bit hungry. So trying to just keep the phrases a little bit longer. And then take the breath thing because the breath in will come, it's going to follow the woods apt. So that's a really useful one, too.

Sally: Yeah. That's such a great point to raise because a lot of people will say to me, Sal, I feel like I've lost my breath. Like I've got no air and often as you're pointing out, it's, it's not the. And not coming in, it's the air not going out. So the air will come in, but then the breath will be just restricted and people will talk about holding their breath.

Jess: Yes, absolutely. Yes.

Sally: So it's about having that, that wheel rolling. I've also heard that a good way to activate the vagus nerve is to exhale for longer than you inhale. Is that something you've heard?

Jess: Yes. So we can add the long exhalations for sure. And exactly what we were just explaining, where we take longer to speak before we breathe in is actually mimicking that as well, that mechanism, but it comes down to the vagal brake.

So we, when we look at that branch, which I said runs from the brainstem to the heart, if you could imagine, like you're riding a bike down hill and you just keep a little bit of a break, engage with your hand. That's what our vagal brake does for us at rest. So it's always dampening the effect on our heart a little bit.

Now, if I get excited, like when I talk about this topic and I get really enthusiastic, I just can relax that break a little bit, which lets in that mobilizing energy for enthusiasm, vitality when we're passionate or when, when we want to focus on something. And then afterwards it would reengage and we'd slow our physiology back down.

So when we extend out exhalation, when that vagal brake is off, because we might be a bit anxious and we feel that physiology going so fast and we might feel ourselves talking really fast and constricted we actually engage that vagal brake with the longer exhalation. And what we know is that for some people who experience a lot of anxiety, it can actually show that maybe the vagal brake isn't working quite as well as it could.

And so if we practice it each day, our nervous systems are plastic, which means we have the ability to change how they're functioning and, and we can certainly improve that. Just like we might go to the gym, we can learn to improve our nervous system so it becomes more flexible and adaptable under challenges.

Sally: Oh, it's like, if you do voice exercises every single day, then the warrant will be so much easier before you speak. So, so fascinating and so important for speaking, because when we do go to hit live on the webinar or to step on stage, or they're going around the room and every, and it's your turn to unmute in the meeting.

Jess: Yes.

Sally: The anxiety can really peak, can it? So that's the time when you're saying we need to put that vagal brake on.

Jess: Yes, absolutely.

Sally: I love that analogy with the handbrake and it's like, it's all right. Under control, I guess that's also so, uh, embracing it and being okay with our body doing that, because I guess we wouldn't want to be in so much of a relaxed, lethargic state before we have to perform. So we should thank our body for saying yep. Thanks. Thanks for being there. Got you. Let's just put the handbrake on.

Jess: Yeah. I mean that, that energy, that mobilizing energy that we feel come into our system when we might be nervous or when we might be, um, excited or, you know, even to a degree when we feel that anxiety, you know, stress isn't bad for us, all it is is it's our mind, body system, mobilizing energy for us to cope with a challenge. The thing is, when we don't get the chance to recover from it, that it can affect us. But if it's speaking and we feel anxious and we feel nervous or waves of mobilizing energy, it's actually a healthy thing because you know, what would it sound like to listen to somebody who was down here?

Their body was flat... you know, you'd get you, wouldn't be that motivated to, to listen to that person. So it's, it is our system trying to help us to prepare for us. And I think you gave me a really great piece of advice in one, uh, thing you were teaching on, which was really about just letting those waves of nervousness come in.

And it was like, you spoke about the butterflies and things like that. And that's a training and a skill to build our capacity to feel those sensations, but still, you know, not move off into fight or flight, not, not become so stressed and that we move out of the present.

Sally: Yeah, we don't need to get rid of the butterflies. We just need to get them flying in formation.

Jess: Aha. I love that.

Sally: And I love that you used the word recover because one of my clients mentioned this to me last week. I might do a whole episode on this and it was Sal. My speech went really, really well, but I'm feeling today really flat, really down. It's like I've crashed after the high.

So, are there any tips you can give for that recovery phase of people, because it's an important piece of the puzzle, isn't it?

Jess: Uh, absolutely. So when we have that mobilizing energy that comes into our system and we lose a little bit of that vagal brake inhibiting or slowing our system down, what we want to make sure that happens is that that mobilizing energy is also discharged.

Um, so then our vagal brake can come back in. So it's a bit like say a, you set a temperature of a house of say 20 degrees. Great. But you know, there's times where, where cranks right up in the air con needs to work really hard. But then, you know, there might be a cold day where the air con goes off or a heater comes in, but we hover around that same temperature.

Well, this is how it is with many of our systems, but especially the nervous system. So what it can be is that we can look at, okay, so if I've got all that energy in my system and I need to go and discharge that. So that might mean that we go for a fast walk or for me the best thing that I've found, it's just hanging out with those people who are quite regulated themselves and, and having that back and forth in conversation. You don't really even need to talk about things that would have been stressful for you. It's more that if they're in a regulated state and I hear the prosody in their voice, if they attuned to how I am, if I see the smile and we have a connection, My nervous system will mirror theirs and I will shift back to a calm state.

So we have, we very much have this feedback loop with other people where our nervous system mirrors, those people around us.

Sally: Mm, I think that's what I love about being with Patrick so much, because he's just so, such a calming influence. I find that often, like these, this isn't running around the house and he's just really centering. And you're right, it's not, it's not what you're talking about. It's just being in that presence of the energy of somebody who. Bring that down. And I guess the lesson is as well as if in your relationships, you're finding people are having the opposite effect. Then maybe that's a sign to not spend so much time with them if you can.

Jess: I think we need to know our limits. Like we can support other people, but you know that there will be a, a toll on being around somebody who is, you know, of course we want to care and give support, but to recognize that we can't do that all the time. We can, you know, give as much of ourselves as we can, but if we start to feel ourselves shift into feeling really anxious or overwhelmed, it might be best for us to come out of that space for a little.

Sally: Yeah. I really love that analogy with the air con because it's, when do we need to put the handbrake on, when do we need to discharge? When do we need to lift? It's so interesting. So apart from the breathing and the fast walk you mentioned, is there anything else people can do to help engage or activate their vagus nerve?

Jess: Yeah, the main thing I would say is having people who, like I said, are that core regulator for us, especially in times when it's difficult. I mean, we hear so much around how it's codependent to rely on other people, but that doesn't really marry up with science or how we are wired biologically. Um, we are so designed for connection and to have that, especially in times when things are hard. Um, we can also adjust look quite easily, or we can start to use becoming aware of our posture.

So this doesn't mean stand up straight or anything like that. But let's say we move into a fight or flight response. We might find that we brace. So I could straightaway-- and that means tension in my showed is restriction around my ribcage, my diaphragm...

Sally: The tension in the throat and the jaw and the tongue. That's why it affects speaking so much…yeah.

Jess: And the belly, you know, we draw our belly. Always a lot of us are taught to stand like that.

Sally: Yeah!

Jess: Which well, you know, and it's so funny because the guard being relaxed is like such a, is, is really where a lot of that connection to the vagus nerve is going. So letting the belly just soften, but it can also be, if we feel ourselves, go down into that state of shutdown or helplessness, we may just sort of slump straight away, like, oh, there's no use trying. It's helpless. I feel hopeless about this situation because our vagus nerve will change depending on our posture. And that's to do with a fancy word called Barrow receptors, which are inside blood vessels. So they will either turn up or turn down the vagus. Music is one of the most powerful portals because the muscles of the middle ear, um, when we hear mid frequency sounds that that's related to that social engagement system I was talking about. So music that attunes with how we're feeling and in that middle frequency range, not when there's a lot of bass or lots of rock, but moreso where, you know, the words and the music can move us. That's a big one.

Sally: Then we avoid the, um, the death metal…

Jess: Maybe! And this, unless you really want to go to the gym and you know, how put on some ACDC or something like that, that, that, that lifts you back up again. Um, but dark coming into that, that state where the it's a little bit more in the middle frequencies, helpful.

Sally: Um, and speaking of music, humming is also known to be quite effective for the nerves. So it's also great for the breathing. So an exercise that I often talk about is just a deep breath in and then,

Hmm.

Jess: Yes, you can certainly use humming as well. And it's got the aspect of the breathing out as well. The power of it is knowing what attunes to you. When, what we said about the music, for example, I mean, one day I might feel like listening to London Grammar because that attunes with me feeling really down and really flat.

But the next day I might be feeling so annoyed about something and putting on that rock music and getting out and moving is that best thing that attunes to where I'm at. So it's a little bit like say you're talking to somebody and you tell them something's really hard for you. And you're so sad about it.

And then they sort of say, oh, you'd be right. Just get on with it. You know, it's that misattunement. So, what we would, what's better because so many people say what's the one best tool? It's like, well, there isn't one. It's what is attuning to you on that day or what state you're in. Um, and it will be different for all people, and it'll be different for ourselves at different points as well. So lots of tools is good.

Sally: I feel like you've totally given me permission to listen to my sad country break-up playlist.

Jess: Curious on that. I want to know!

Sally: A lot of the Nashville soundtrack.

Jess: It sounds fun.

Sally: I love like this lying in the bath with a glass of wine or a cup of tea, because I have cut back on drinking a lot and just playing the sad music and just having a good cry. I really enjoy crying.

Jess: Yes! And sometimes it just lets it out. doesn't it? Which is, you know, we always see it as, oh, there's something so wrong, but crying can actually be a sign of discharging that stress from the nervous system. So it's not a bad thing.

Sally: Yeah, tears, the nature's great cleanser. Absolutely.

Oh, Jess, I feel like I have learned so much in this episode, so fascinating. Was there anything else that you wanted to add?

Jess: I would probably just say to what's helpful is for people is to sort of recognize the different ways that they do respond. And when, so say for example, with facing challenges like speaking or putting ourselves out there, do we tend to maybe. Respond where we push ourselves and end up with a lot of anxiety or panic, because maybe it's a little bit too much for us, or do we tend to maybe shut down, pull away, withdraw, and maybe not quite step forward enough.

And I think that's where if we can build this awareness, what we call autonomic awareness, where we look at it, not as there's something wrong with us, but that these are responses of the nervous system. That we all have at different points, but the more knowledge we have about our own responses, the more power we have to work with them.

And sometimes it just takes a little tool, a little attunement, and then we're right to go again.

Sally: Um, yeah, I'm reading a book at the moment by Dr. Julie Smith. Who's like a big TikTok psychologist and the book is called "Why has no one told me this before?" And she was saying that this was a thing coming up so often people would come in and think, oh, there's something wrong with me. And I'm sure you've seen the same thing as well. There's something wrong with me. I'm not right! And you know, it's just me when really, once you learn some of these, the science behind it and some skills. People would say, why has no one told me this before?

Why didn't we learn this in school? And this is a lot of feedback that I get as well with what I teach. And you're right. Once we get that information, it can be so empowering to be like, right. I know what's going on. And I know what I can do in this situation.

Jess: Absolutely, because I don't think that you ever get to a state where you not going to be nervous when there's, you know, something you, or that you might not get, you know, you won't get disappointed that that's a part of being human.

And it's like you said, you've got the tools to attune to the sadness and, and move that through. But it's that, it's not about trying to get rid of those things because we won't-- that's, that's what it means to be human. But to know that we don't have to let those stories or those states stop us from doing the things that we want to.

Sally: Um, absolutely. And that's the big philosophy behind everything I do, including Speak from your Soul, which is the course that starting again soon. I know that you did it last time. It was amazing to be part of.

Jess: I really loved what I said before about the part when you spoke a lot on how it's good not to try and get rid of those sensations before you speak. I was doing a lot of vagus nerve workshops then, and they were getting bigger and bigger. So it was pushing me to my edge of the comfort zone. And as soon as I got that, like letting what's there just flow and it also allowed more spontaneity and joy to flow with that experience. Oh, but the key takeaway, I know what it was now was, and I love this and I think it's so good.

It was, you said to assume the best from your audience. That is, I think such a great piece of advice because we often leave from speaking events thinking that, oh, but I did that one thing that 1%, or it might even be a half a percent thing that wasn't perfect. And we assume people might not like it. And that even comes down to the brain, having a negativity bias, which means it looks for danger and threat, but it was a, it's a wonderful course and I highly recommend it.

Sally: Oh, thank you so much. And if people are keen to find out more about your workshops and the vagus nerve, how can they find you?

Jess: Sure. So we run a two hour live masterclass, um, and that's all on my website, jessicamaguire.com. We're just in the middle of our six week program, but we'll run another round in July.

Sally: Wonderful! jessicamaguire.com and I will put the links to all of those in the show notes.

Jess: Thanks, Sal!

Sally: Jess, thank you so much for chatting to That Voice Podcast. If I wasn't looking at you, I would've been madly taking notes. That's why I feel like I will be taking notes on all of this while I'm editing this episode! So, thank you so very much.

Jess: Thank you for having me. It's been so much fun.