187. How to be a People-Person (and network like a pro).
Your network is your net worth.
It's not "who you know," it's the relationships you build.
There's no doubt being a great networker will help you reach your goals faster.
In this episode I chat to my favourite networker and viral TikToker Piper Phillips. who shares s so much practical advice around -
🌱 The importance of building a personal brand.
🌱 The power of nurturing relationships.
🌱 The best time to network.
🌱 How to do cold outreach on LinkedIn right.
🌱 How to build rapport with people fast.
🌱 The difference between being a people-person and a people-pleaser.
🌱 The Do's and Don'ts of networking in person.
🌱 The power of social media to build your network.
Transcript
Hello, hello. I saw a funny little meme that said I used to be a people person, but people ruined that for me. In all seriousness, the vast majority of opportunities that have come my way, if not all, began with a conversation with a person. So I recorded this episode to encourage you to reach out and have those conversations and have them effectively. And when I was thinking of who best to speak to about this, one name came to mind, Piper Phillips.
Piper is a Glamazon powerhouse who lives in New York and describes herself as a full-time opportunist and people person. She's also a marketer, not surprisingly. We first met back on Clubhouse a few years ago, and since then I followed her on TikTok, where she's built a following of more than 80,000. And I so admire Piper's courage and skill in networking on LinkedIn, on TikTok in person. And our interview wowed me. I know age is just a number, but I do wanna point out that Piper is in her early twenties. You know, sometimes I hear excuses from my clients about why things aren't happening for them. I'm too young, I don't know anyone. I dunno what to say. I'm scared to reach out. I don't know how to reach out. What if they don't write back? My parents never gave me any connections. I don't have a big enough social following.
Excuses, echmuses, as Piper shares, these things do not matter. Are going to learn in this episode. The best time to start networking. How to do cold outreach on LinkedIn, the power of building your social profile and the difference between being a people pleaser and a people person. Gotta make that distinction. And there's a whole lot more in there, including even where to stand when you go into a networking event. And we begin our episode with some at the time of recording news.
Sally:
Piper Phillips, welcome to that voice podcast. It's so great to have you here.
Piper:
It's great to be here, Sally, thank you for having me on.
Sally:
So you've got some big news in your world. Tell us what's going on.
Piper:
I'm a marketer and content creator living in New York in my young twenties. I'm originally from Chicago, but moved here about two years ago at this point. And I actually just left my job. I was formerly Director of Marketing for a series a stage startup for the past two years or so. And now I am on the hunt for my next adventure.
Sally:
It's so exciting. Congratulations. it takes courage to make a big change in your life like that. So let's get straight into it. How has your networking and putting yourself out there helped you? Because I first met you Piper on Clubhouse.
Piper:
Yes.
Sally:
When that was a thing a couple of years ago. And I remember thinking, 'cause I think at the time it was a room with a bunch of entrepreneurs, I think we're all in our like late thirties, forties or something like that. Like there was just not a lot of young people on there. And you were straight in there. And then you are on TikTok, putting yourself out there. So explain to us, yeah. How has this helped you?
Piper:
Thank you. Yes. I mean, I think I was just thinking back, I think it was even like 19 at that point.
Sally:
Wow. Yeah.
Piper:
When we had met, which is crazy. So I've been building my personal brand on TikTok primarily for the past, you know, couple years. And for me it's a creative outlet, but it's also a strategic tool when thinking of networking in a professional sense and relationship building. I've really seen the power of how having a presence online translates to building relationships in person and vice versa.
Sally:
Yeah. How so have you got, you've got so many cool stories about this.
Piper:
So, the job that I was at for the past two years, it was a functional beverage brand and it was a phenomenal opportunity. I was leading our marketing strategy, launching into the New York and Manhattan market. I actually never even applied for that job. So when I was looking for my next experience, the first step in my opinion is always to get really clear on what you want. So I knew that I wanted, at that point in my life, to join a startup that was young, where I also being young was going to be able to have an impact. So I knew that was gonna be a Startup and a smaller organization. I wasn't sure exactly what specialty and marketing I wanted to go into. So being at a smaller company provides you with the visibility to see every function and every aspect. So I was like, okay, I know I wanna be at a Startup, probably series A stage, and I wanna be in a role that's both analytical and creative to flex both, both of those muscles.
Piper:
So I just started reaching out to people in my network. I was going on my LinkedIn, seeing connections that I had, seeing people who I'd been in clubhouse rooms with or had met via coffee chats or from my alumni network. And I just started reaching out to those weak ties we call them. And just saying really straight up, Hey I know it's been a while, I hope everything's well with you, but I'm wanted to ask just in case you have any friends or people in your network who are looking to fill a position. I gave a little bio about myself and let them know that I was looking to join a Startup. And sure enough, like one week after I started doing that, someone who I'd never even met in person responded to my LinkedIn network LinkedIn request, excuse me, and put me in a warm intro email with the founder of the company. And that is how I started the conversation with the brand. And then I got hired a week later and started a week after that.
Sally:
It's so amazing. I think a lot of people are, well, I've heard from my clients, they're a little bit shy to do these messages on LinkedIn because they may be, you know what it's like you can get these very unwelcome, really cold email DMs, LinkedIn DMs. So how do you not be like that? How do you make it personal? How do you get over the fear of people not responding?
Piper:
I think, well, the fear of people not responding to you never goes away ever for anything. I mean, it's, it's just a form of the fear of rejection that I'm sure you can speak also at length about how that shows up in your career in different ways. But it's more about just understanding that you're gonna feel a little bit cringey when you send a message and that someone might not answer. But I think what worked for me was just realizing that those people that I was messaging for advice or wanting to start a relationship with, they've been in my shoes before, undoubtedly. There had definitely been a time in their career when they were younger or less experienced, that they were looking for mentorship or looking to reach out to people. And knowing that I think was, was very helpful. And it also doesn't even matter what age you are or how many years of experience you have under your belt.
Piper:
I feel like us as humans, we can always learn and we can always, and should always seek mentorship from other people. So that was that first point of when I felt that fear, I decided that I was going to feel the fear and do it anyway, even though I felt cringey reaching out to people I had seen, I got a little taste of that in my life of how life-changing of a decision, reaching out to someone like that could be that that outweighed any feelings of "cringiness" or awkwardness that I may have felt. So that's important to start there in terms of sending a quality message. That's a really good point because anyone on LinkedIn knows, like you said, there are so many spam messages, people using AI in, in my opinion, wrong ways. Because sending a message like that, especially when you're asking for the favor of someone's valuable time, you should do your homework.
Piper:
You should look at the person, see if you have anything in common with them to actually start a genuine relationship. And if possible mention that or work that into your initial message. Because the truth is, you could have so much in common with someone, either your background or your values or the perspective you have on life. But if someone doesn't feel that or maybe get a taste of that in your, you know, 500 character message, the sad reality is that you're never gonna have the chance to form that connection. So that initial message is really important to you, at the very least, leave someone being curious enough to want to get to know you.
Sally:
And do you have any tips around specifically how you can do that? Is it researching the person a little bit? Is there a particular introduction or sign-off that you use?
Piper:
I think it's a very case by case basis in terms of what the content of the message actually looks like. However, the first thing to do is research the person. So LinkedIn makes it so easy for us. You can go on their profile and you can see do you have something in common geographically? Are you from the same place? Did you speak the same language? Maybe for example, I speak German, I'm half American, half German.
Sally:
Yeah. It's so cool.
Piper:
Thank you. Thank you. Every time I am on LinkedIn and I see someone that they have German on their profile, I genuinely get so excited about that and excited to reach out to them because I know that feeling of growing up, you know, with dual nationalities, dual cultures. So that's always something really powerful to connect with someone on. It could also be previous job history or shared experiences. So I always try to look at the profile of someone and look for things that we have in common, because common ground is a really powerful tool in building rapport with someone.
Sally:
Mm, yeah. Such good tips. And I also saw, you haven't posted about this for a while on TikTok, but you are a singer.
Piper:
Yes, yes, I am. Thank you for bringing that up because I'm really trying to get back into that ally.
Sally:
Oh, well, I love that. And I've, I'm a former, like not a singer, but did speech and drama on stage growing up, and I feel like having that background in performance really helps with your confidence in general. Would you agree?
Piper:
Yeah. That's super interesting. And I've actually been reflecting on that lately. A lot of my friends who also live in New York who are content creators or influencers, I had this weird realization where I'm like, okay, Natalie was a dancer, Tyler was an actor. Like, there is that performance background that I think lends itself really well to content creation, but also just to marketing in general or public speaking, for example. I definitely think that growing up, I mean, I was, I was doing it almost every single day. So I played guitar, piano, and sing with a band at times, five nights a week.
Sally:
You got such a great voice.
Piper:
Oh, thank you.
Sally:
This is your sign to post more singing content.
Piper:
Thank you. I was, yeah, I was playing five nights a week. I had restaurants that I would go to. My dad's actually a drummer, so him and I had a standing gig every Saturday morning when I was in high school, in college.
Sally:
I really wanna meet your parents. Like your dad was a drummer and your mom's so cute and you go to Christmas markets in Germany and stuff. It just sounds so great.
Piper:
Thank you. Yeah. You, you know my life, you know what I'm up to. That's the, the good thing about oversharing your entire life on the internet. But I'm very thankful for that background because I feel like it also gets you really comfortable with rejection. When I was 16 years old, I was not, not even 16, 14, I began, I was knocking on restaurant doors asking them if they wanted a musician to play. You know, you got 20 nos before you go a yes. And then that's how I found I had three restaurants that I played at. And that taught me so much about people. I loved the music and I still do love the music and I'm getting back into it slowly, but it really just taught me my love of interacting with people and being fascinated by the skill of being able to read a room.
Sally:
Yeah. And this episode is all about being a people person and it's just such a great metaphor, isn't it? Because, you know, lit, you, you were literally knocking on doors and having some open and some close, and that's what the online space is like as well. You keep knocking on doors and some open and some close.
Piper:
Yeah. Wow. That's powerful. I've never actually thought of it that way, so thank you for that. Putting all the pieces together, it, I think it's just, it's such a helpful thing if you can put yourself in a situation where you potentially can face rejection from a stranger, from people. I think that's a really important part of growth, of becoming a people person, if that's something that you would like to do.
Sally:
I just thought of this this morning. What do you think the difference between being a people person and a people pleaser is?
Piper:
Ooh, that's very good. The first thing that initially comes to mind when you ask that question is the person themselves, their state of mind. If you're a people pleaser, you often, because I in the past have fallen into that category as well and sometimes still have behaviors that are people pleasing, your anxious, your thinking only about the other person, you likely are not feeling positive emotions because you're so focused on what that third party is thinking is feeling. You're over analyzing, you wanna make sure that the energy in the room is stable, you're trying to control every aspect of it. That's a very anxiety inducing and provoking place to be mentally. So that's, I think, the biggest difference. Whereas being a people person, in my opinion, my definition of it is you just love to be around people. Like I genuinely love to connect with people. I love having conversations, I love hearing other people's stories. Like it, it's a selfish joy almost. Whereas if you're a people pleaser, I think you're, you're, it's a, it's a negative place to be, a mental place to be.
Sally:
Oh, I love that distinction. Being a people person is coming from a place of, you know, consideration and wanting to connect, whereas people pleasing is coming from a place of you wanting to validate yourself in some way.
Piper:
Yes, that is super true. That aspect of validation. I feel like if you're a people person, you just love the act of connecting itself, you know, whereas if you're a people pleaser, you are searching for another layer of validation or trying to achieve something.
Sally:
Yeah. This is such a great time to chat about this. We've talked about the outreach online. What do you do once you're in person? So you go to an event, it's a networking event, maybe you don't know many people there. What do you do? Do you just like be the awkward one that walks up to a group of people and is like, Hi, how do you do it? I think Americans are much better at this. Australians, we are very awkward. And feel free to message me and disagree with this if you, if you wanna.
Piper:
I love it. I love it. I mean, it's interesting because Germans are the same way, right? Like you stay in your own lane, you don't intrude into other people's business. And I think Americans we're much more accepting of that, especially in New York. I found that actually New Yorkers sometimes get a bad reputation for being cold and unfriendly. I found that this city is very vibrant and welcoming. But exactly what you said, and I know you meant it jokingly, but it's so true. It's going to events by yourself and putting yourself in those awkward situations of involving yourself in conversations. And sometimes it's super, super awkward. But there are a couple tips and tricks that I've kind of developed.
Sally:
Yes. Piper, tell us!
Piper:
Repeatedly. Yes. Repeatedly putting myself in this situation. I was actually, I read this in a book once and then I tested out the theory. For example, when you're at an event and maybe you're alone or you don't know anyone, you know, one person never, ever stand near the bathroom or the outskirts of the room.
Piper:
That is just something that they say. And I was curious as to why that is. And I was reading about it. People who are also feeling awkward or more self-conscious or scared to get into the conversation, tend to migrate on the outskirts of the room or by the bathroom because it's seen as an escape. So the ideology is to, in order to completely immerse yourself, to put yourself in the center of the room, the bar, whether you drink or not, because there are a lot of people who prefer non-alcoholic options, but the act of going to the bar is actually a great way to meet people because you're standing in close proximity with strangers. That's a place where it's acceptable to kind of turn around and talk to your neighbor. So that's something that I love to do. I love to put myself in that situation.
Piper:
And then, you know, ask questions. Something really casual is, you know, if it's a party, like How do you know the host? Or how did you hear about this event? Sometimes it can be received in a little bit of an awkward way, but again, it all comes down to putting yourself out there, being okay that not everyone is gonna be as friendly and open to talk to you, but many people will be. And then other tactics, I shouldn't even call them tactics because they're just very helpful skills given compliments. That's a really common one for women, I feel like more than men. Genuine compliments are a great way to start conversation, but just anything that seems like it could evoke a positive sentiment, that's really, that's a really important part of the whole process. You wanna talk about something positive, you wanna try and find that common ground to create a mutual connection.
Sally:
Yeah, great tips. And I would say as well, people might come across as cold and unfriendly, but often they're just quite anxious and not sure what to do in the situation as well. So I say, you know, like having networking leadership so often I will say, I'm Sally, by the way. Like, I'll introduce myself to be like, so, so they can feel comfortable to introduce themselves.
Piper:
Yes. That's such a great point that, I mean, and the other thing to think about is that you are not the only one that feels that way. For people who feel awkward or think that they couldn't do that, every person who goes to an event by themselves to some degree feels uncomfortable. I would say I'm a very extroverted person, and on my best days, I have no problems talking to strangers, but there have been times where I'm not having a great day. You know, you're not feeling yourself. I'm feeling a little self-conscious, maybe had a bad day at work, and then I have to go and put myself out there. It's tough, it's tough for everyone, but just knowing that if you're at a networking event or at a dinner party or an art gallery or places where people go to mingle, chances are people wanna make connections and they might just be looking for that person with the extra bit of confidence to go up to them.
Sally:
Yeah, absolutely.
This is a great spot to remind you. It doesn't matter what you say or to who you say it to, if you are not connected to your voice, people could feel it. This is why you need the magnetic voice formula. If you're a Soul Speaker, it's in the portal. If not, link is in the show notes.
Sally:
When is a good time to "network" or build relationships? Trick question. When is a good time to build relationships?
Piper:
Always.
Sally:
Always!
Piper:
Always, always, always. But the best time to build relationships is when you don't need them. And I know that's something that you and I both feel very strongly about, is they say, the best time to network is actually not when you're looking for a job, the best time to put yourself out there, make new connections in business and life is when you're looking for absolutely nothing in return. Because networking can be seen as a very yucky word. It can be thought of as very transactional. I want something from you. What can I give you in return? You want something from me? When in reality, it's simply relationship building and it's having people there for you that you meet. And maybe when initially you meet someone, there's no business transaction that takes place. There's nothing that comes of it. But ideally, you now have that person there if anything comes up, and perhaps you can introduce them to someone else or you can expand their network. You just never, never know where those things could lead. So the best time to network, to answer your question, is actually when you're not looking for a job, when you're happy and when things are stable in your life, that's the best time to put yourself out there. Also, because you're gonna be coming from a place of confidence. It's much easier.
Sally:
Yeah, you're not as desperate.
Piper:
Much easier, yes, yes. To have an abundance mindset and make bold decisions when you don't need it. I'm currently looking for a job, as I mentioned, shopping. I call it job shopping.
Sally:
I love that. Tiktok, job shopping.
Piper:
Thank you. Thank you. I feel like the way we speak to ourselves in our mind is, very important. So I've reframed it into a fun, a more fun activity for me, which is shopping. So we are about to start our journey of going job shopping. And I will say, and I don't say this in a braggadocious way, it's more like I was floored and so grateful by the number of outreaches I received when I posted on TikTok that I quit my job. Just people who I hadn't talked to in months who I hadn't even considered as someone that I should reach out to or ask for help from. Just text messages of, Hey, congratulations on your boldness. I saw you quit. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you. Let me know if there's any of my connections on LinkedIn that you'd like an introduction to, like rooting for you. Something as simple as that. I mean, that literally almost brought me to tears the first week because it's a difficult decision to quit your job without having another one lined up. But I cannot overstate this enough that the reason I felt comfortable to do that is because of the strength of my network.
Sally:
Oh, Piper's so great. You're such an inspiration. And I often compare networking to, it's like a garden. You can't pick the fruit if you haven't planted the seeds. So if you're constantly planting seeds, then when you, you might need something, you are there to be able to get it. And if we just, it sounds bad to be like, you know, you're there to get it. If we apply it for ourselves, we're much more likely to help someone that we already know. Then a random who's just messaged on LinkedIn. And this is the thing with with jobs, which is interesting, people will hire the person they know better, not necessarily the best applicant for the role. They'd rather hire the known quantity. So the relationships you build will always trump almost everything else. And this is how we know in some cases, people who aren't great at jobs get these great jobs just because of the relationships they have.
Piper:
It's fascinating hearing you say that made me think of two things. One is that there is the psychological phenomenon that we are drawn to people who remind us of ourselves. And that concept does, it does become quite problematic in the workplace because it can lead to some issues with lack of diversity. So that's something that HR practices are very intentionally hiring for diversity, which is an amazing thing, but psychologically people are drawn to people who remind them of themselves. So that's a very interesting concept to keep in mind when networking and that's why comes back full circle to trying to build rapport via common ground. And then the second thing, as you said, it's not fair, right? Like on paper, I have people I've talked to that are like, I should have gotten that job. I'm way smarter than that person. I could have been way better at the job, but they didn't hire me. And it's, it's not fair in theory, right? It should be the most qualified person that gets the job, but it just goes to show the power of relationships is one that a lot of people underestimate. When in reality it is worthwhile to spend time developing that skill in addition to the hard skills that people prepare for, for a job interview.
Sally:
Piper, I'm so glad that you said that skill because often it's like, it's not fair, it's just who you know. It's not what you know, it's who you know. You know, in my family, my parents, God bless them, you know, they didn't really have any connections at all. You know, and the connections I have are the ones that I've built myself. So we need to start seeing relationship building as a skill that anyone can, can learn rather than just a luck of the draw thing. And when you start doing that, you'll just see so much open up for you.
Piper:
Absolutely. I mean, you said it perfectly, being totally transparent, I get that comment a lot because I'm very thankful. I grew up in the Chicago suburbs. My dad's a lawyer, my mom's a dentist. They're very educated, hardworking. My dad was the first person in his family to go to college. So I get comments of, Oh, well you came from a well-off family, you have these connections. Full stop. I did not have a family or network in New York when I moved here at all two years ago. Like, the people I know in New York City were because of my boldness and my openness in talking to strangers. And that's something I'm very proud of and I speak proudly at because like you said, it's a skill that I work to develop. Sure. I definitely have. Everyone has innate qualities that they're born with. Everyone has different strengths, but when it comes to charisma and networking with people, that a hundred percent is a skill that anyone can improve upon.
Sally:
So we've spoken about outreach on LinkedIn, in-person networking events. I think you'd agree with me here. The strongest thing has been building a social media profile. You could say, you know, social media is like one to many networking all the time. And people are getting to know you, you know, in the middle of the night. Like even this right here, Piper, I don't know if I've commented on a lot of your videos, but you've always been in my mind, and since I see you a lot, and I was like, Oh yes, I've gotta get Piper on the podcast. You know, I don't accept any pictures for the podcast. Everybody that I interview is people that I know and reach out to and say, Please, I'd love to chat to you. So this is an example of the strength of social media.
Piper:
Oh, you put it so perfectly. I always think of that cheesy, I think it comes from the Roman Empire, but build it and they will come. That whole concept.
Sally:
Yeah. We'll go with it.
Piper:
It's the concept of if you build something, you then will spend less time being the one searching for it or hunting for it. Instead, you can develop something that will actually attract people. And that's has been my biggest strategy right now, honestly, is sharing my journey on social media. I shared when I was in my former position as director of marketing at, at the startup I was at, I shared a lot of day in my life activities of what I actually did at my job. So my hope is that wherever I end up and when I have more conversations with companies and hiring managers, it, it used to be the thing of you wanted to hide your social media, right? Because it was too personal or it was inappropriate. I'm the opposite. I have a lot of my career related content on my TikTok. I want someone, a hiring manager to look at my TikTok and have a very good sense of who I am, my values, and the kind of work I'm capable of.
Sally:
Yeah, so great. Oh, Piper, this has been such a good conversation to finish up, what would be your one piece of advice if someone's listening and there's like, they're like, oh my gosh, I am not putting myself out there. I'm not on social media, I'm not messaging people. What would be one piece of advice that you'd give them?
Piper:
I would begin with the one-to-one, networking, reaching out to set a goal for yourself. Maybe one person a week that you see on LinkedIn or that you've heard a friend talk about that you would love an introduction to and ask them to get a coffee or ask them to hop on a video call. And just try and form a genuine relationship with that person. Do not worry about if it's perfect or if it leads to an opportunity right away, but I promise you just build those relationships and the opportunities will follow.
Sally:
How can people find you, Piper?
Piper:
Yes, please. I would love to connect with all of you and hear any thoughts or anything you disagree with me as well. You can follow me on TikTok @pipercassidyphillips my Instagram's @piperphillips, and my website is piperphillips.com.
Sally:
Oh, Piper, thank you so much for coming on that voice podcast.
Piper:
Thank you so much for having me, Sally. I'm so glad we did this. It's been long over here.
Sally:
Yeah, Me too.