210. How to speak in FLOW
Speaking in a FLOW state is the sweet spot! You feel your absolute best, you're 100% in the present moment and the connection with your audience is electric.
In this episode I chat to the Queen of FLOW Ruby Lee about -
✨What is FLOW state?
✨ How you get into flow.
✨ What time period is the sweet spot.
✨ How you can get into flow state for speaking.
✨ Why flow state trumps preparing content everytime.
✨ The DARK SIDE of FLOW.
Transcript
Hello, are you ready to Flow? Being in Flow state, getting in the zone, feeling the moment, this is the speaking sweet spot. So today it's my great joy to bring the wonderful Ruby Lee on That Voice Podcast. Ruby's a business coach, Flow state business is her jam. She's been a mentor of mine and a beautiful friend. So stay tuned to hear all about how you can get into Flow, the optimum timeframe for Flow, why getting into Flow for speaking trumps any other kind of preparation. And also wait for it, how to avoid the dark side of Flow. And as you'll hear, I had a bit of a cold when we recorded this one, but I did not want to delay our interview. So enjoy my nasal tones and fortunately Ruby does do most of the talking as she pours so much value into our conversation. I'd really encourage you to reach out to her and say thank you for such incredible content on today's podcast.
Sally:
Ruby Lee, welcome to That Voice Podcast. So wonderful to finally have you on the show.
Ruby:
Thank you so much Sal. I'm so excited to be on here and it's always just the best catch ups you and I have. So now we get to record it and have it in history.
Sally:
Absolutely. You've been such a mentor to me over the years since starting my business. And I often refer to Queen of Coin, which was one of your courses about money mindset, which really helped me a lot. And you are, in my opinion, the Queen of Flow. You just seem to Flow with so much ease. So I would love to speak about that today. I'm sure people have heard this idea of oh, I was in Flow, I felt in Flow. But what is Flow state?
Ruby:
Hmm. So Flow is the study of highest consciousness. I really love this explanation of it because if you really think about who it is that coined the word "Flow", it was this psychologist called Mihaly, Csikszentmihalyi. We often refer to him in Flow science as the godfather of Flow. And for him to say that the study of Flow is about he's consciousness from a science-based background. I just think there's something so unique about that because we hear it in the spiritual sense so much. But when you're thinking about how the brain operates and how we make decisions, how we choose to feel good, it really is coming from a place of your highest being and what is ultimately going to help you be the best version of yourself. What is going be the path of least resistance? What is gonna help you feel most effortless and of ease really? It's just truly so wonderful to see the science of it come together as well as the energetics behind it as well.
Sally:
Yeah, absolutely. So how do you know you're in a Flow state?
Ruby:
You are in a Flow state because things just feel like they're all clicking into place. Most times you will describe Flow as being in the zone. I'm so in the zone or I got so much done and I can't quite explain exactly how that happened. And you are in this space of time dilation, productivity overload and really, you know, from a a performance perspective, whether it be a Fortune 500 CEO or a top 1% athlete, top 1% entrepreneur, you know, you might categorize them as peak performers because they seem to be doing so much with the same amount of time that we all have in a day. And you think to yourself, how do they keep up? How do they feel so energized? How is it that they fit so much in their time? You know, you're in Flow when you're in this real optimal state of activity.
Sally:
Yeah, love it. And how do you get into Flow state?
Ruby:
Oh my gosh, there is a lot to do for me around environment. So I definitely explain Flow as you can't just decide I'm gonna flow for the next 90 minutes, which we can talk about the, the science of 90 minutes in a sec, but there is almost this on ramp which needs to happen. You need to set yourself up to enter the flow state highway. You can't just be on it. It's just like any highway you need to speed up so that you can catch up with going at a hundred miles per hour, a hundred kilometers an hour. What
Sally:
A great metaphor.
Ruby:
Yeah, exactly. And so for me, I love thinking about it from my environmental state where wherever it is, I work a lot from cafes. I actually work, I work a lot from the car, I find a lot of productivity in there. I work a lot from my bed. Like there's so many areas that maybe is not as popularized to get into productivity, but these are my spaces. Hotel lobbies basically anywhere where there's a lot of hustle and bustle and activities where I find a ton of Flow. But my environment, if let's say I'm just in my home office, which I am now, I will absolutely never have this thing which I'm holding up Sally right now on video is my phone. I'll never have this close by. It just literally is out of the room. I do not look at notifications. I turn my laptop onto do not disturb, so I'm not seeing any text messages, any notifications whatsoever.
Ruby:
And then I light a candle, you know, it's a nice visual cue where I have actually a very specific candle that I use for business. So it's a certain smell as well. It just gets me to this place where it's like so luxurious. And then I have, what is it? Oh it's Santal 66. It's just like one of my favorite if you love, you know, the Santal smells like from Le Labo. It's just my smell for working. It's so fresh and luxury, it's just stunning. And then I just have my crystals around and I set my intention and that all of this, by the way, it seems like a lot of fluff, but actually it takes like five minutes. And then as I'm in this intentional state of what I want to do during my Flow session, which is typically a 90 minute block of deep Flow work.
Sally:
Yeah, why is that? Why 90 minutes,
Ruby:
90 minutes? The science behind it is that this is the amount of time that your brain can really sit down and fully deliver and concentrate on work that requires a lot of deep thinking. I'm not talking about writing back on emails or commenting back on socials. That's what you could classify as shallow work with deep work. It's writing a sales page for example, writing your next offer challenge, you're in a challenge at the moment. So writing the challenge outline or thinking about you know, the next mastermind that you are creating, if you're a coach or a mentor, that requires a lot of concentration and deep work, right? So 90 minutes is amazing for that because the brain actually needs about 20 minutes to almost get rid of all of the conversations we call it, you know attention residue. So a lot of the conversations, a lot of the activity that's happened just before you've decided to enter into a 90 minute Flow state. So it gives you that runway, that 20 minutes of just diving in and then as you're moving into the deep Flow work, by the time you come out the other side of it, you are feeling a little loss of concentration. You're kind of over it. You've sat down for a bit now. So that's the, the other side of the 90 minutes. So that's why we really like a 90 minute chunk and I just adore it. Like I'll do two of these a day and you wouldn't believe how much I get done.
Sally:
You get a lot done and I talk a lot about the speaking runway, which is that preparation to speaking. So I love that metaphor that you had with, you know, the on-ramp to the highway. So when we apply this to speaking, 'cause ideally when we step onto the stage or step onto the webinar or step onto the podcast, we wanna be in in Flow state at that moment, don't we?
Ruby:
Absolutely. Yes. And that's the intention that you wanna set there where it's like I'm about to speak on a webinar live maybe for the next hour, everything that is potentially going to derail you, whatever it is, whatever things are happening around, just take them out of your visual space. Like think about your peripherals even, what is it that's kind of annoying you If something's flashing, if there's a lot of mess in the corner, just get it out the room, chuck it out the door you know, so that you can be fully in this space where you are present and you're here and it takes out a lot of that residue where your brain's wanting to process certain things. You're just so balanced and so centered for that amount of time.
Sally:
This is why it's so important to put that time in before you speak. So if the webinar starts at 11, by at least 10 30, you've gotta be getting in the zone.
Ruby:
Exactly. You're
Sally:
On a stage, you know, I work with lots of corporates and they go into these important meetings, whether they be with the executive team or with the board and they've got back to back-to-back meetings right up until it. And there's no way that you can get into flow state,
Ruby:
Even if it's a 10 minute circuit breaker. So this is actually a really great thing to remember. If you are someone who runs a very busy back-to-back schedule most days, if you can implement 10 minutes in between your meetings, it makes a world of difference. But we're gonna use these 10 minutes really strategically, we call them circuit breakers in the world of Flow science. And all it is is it's taking you away from what it is you've just done with some kind of either serotonin uplift or a healthy dose of dopamine. I'm not talking about doom scrolling, but it could just be doing, you know, one minute star jumps, just get your blood pumping. For example, for others of us, it might be going to quickly go down. If you live near a coffee shop, grab a coffee, come back, and all that fresh air, that ritual of grabbing a coffee that just breaks things up.
Ruby:
You know, there's something so positive about that. I do something maybe a little bit strange, like I kind of like having something else to do out outside of laptop world. So I will actually have either, you know, those adult mindful coloring books, I have that close by and I'll just color for five minutes and you know, just get my mind into a space where I am just so in this like clearing out all of the energy that I've just received somewhere else and just blank slating it. Paint by numbers is also another amazing thing. Doing a little corner of your thousand piece puzzle is another amazing thing. So
Sally:
Yeah, that's my thing for sure. Jigsaw puzzle is always in the coffee table.
Ruby:
Yes. a friend of mine is learning how to play guitar, so she'll just pick up the guitar, it's in the office and she'll just play a couple of chords and practice a chord progressions. So many great things, but 10 minutes, it makes a world of difference. And then you've reset and you're back and then you can get into Flow in your next, you know, meeting or shallow work or deep work, whatever you are entering into next.
Sally:
Mm. I think this is a concept, Ruby, you might have shared with me. It sounds like a Ruby Lee one where the, moment, is time is energy.
Ruby:
Yes.
Sally:
There's clock time, which is, you know, we are meeting for this podcast at 10:30 AM that's clock time. But most of what we do is energy time. And this really resonated with me and we all know this, that especially those of us who have done any kind of study or university, you'll sit staring at that screen for hours and hours and hours and then boom, you'll write the whole thing in 20 minutes. 20 minutes. So it's a real lesson for us to use our time effectively and not think about the length of time that we need, rather the energy zone we need to be in to get the task done in the most efficient way.
Ruby:
Do you know the best way to think about not being on clock time and even though time is always running is when we're asleep, time's still running, but we have no concept of what time it is when we're in this really, really deep state of sleep. But one of the things I'm not sure if speaking of university, if you can relate to this also, but the night before any exam I would read and cram my exam notes. So I would always have those calling cards, like those cards to help me remember. And I'd be like, right, read the calling cards, read the memory cards just before I go to sleep. I put them away and then go to sleep. I swear the next morning I woke up and so much of that retained because stuff was happening even off clock time. My brain was still doing its thing, it was still, you know, filing certain memories and it was still subconsciously helping me recall so many things. The same thing goes that when you think about how you wanna be productive and what you wanna achieve in your business and what you wanna do in your life, these sorts of things, they're so amazing to think about. It's not just based off from 10:00 AM to 11, 11:00 AM I'm doing this, but it's the ongoing effect of how you are changing your reality with every aspect of your intention and your time.
Sally:
Absolutely. In the past I used to say, oh, I don't really have time to go to the gym now. It's a priority because when you go and exercise you can achieve more than what you would've done if you hadn't have gone. And also at night we go into, is it the theater brainwaves? So we are able to retain information, which is why when you're memorizing a speech or something like that, it's really helpful to record it and listen to it first thing before you go to sleep. And then first thing in the morning you go and you retain it so much faster.
Ruby:
Oh my gosh, I'll remember that. And it's, it honestly is amazing, right? Like you can wake up and go, oh I don't need these cards anymore, I don't need my notes anymore, I've got it. It's like imprinted overnight.
Sally:
Absolutely. And oh my goodness, we are powering on with my voice not being, its usual dulce tones.
Ruby:
It's all good. I wanna say that your voice is sounding very sexy and raspy. It is very, very dulce. Just a different tone.
Sally:
I will take it. I know. This is what I was going to say is in those times when we feel like we're so prepared, whether it be for an exam or for a speech where we've practiced the words, we have memorized it, we've done it in front of the mirror, if we get to that time of performance walking into that exam or walking on stage and we are not able to get our physical state into a Flow state, or if we're holding all that tension, then all of that great preparation goes out the window
Ruby:
A hundred percent.
Sally:
This is a great spot to remind you, it doesn't matter what you say or to who you say it to, if you are not connected to your voice, people can feel it. This is why you need the magnetic voice formula. If you're a Soul Speaker, it's in the portal. If not link is in the show notes.
Ruby:
Like, you know, when you see a good speaker on stage, you know when they're in Flow, you can see it. They're, you know, they, they know what they're meant to talk about. They've got their outline. They may even have certain prompts, you know, on the stage somewhere and they can see the timer running down and there's so many different visual cues, but they just look at one with themselves. They look so embodied on stage, they might even be really interacting with the audience and the crowd. And then they're still staying on target with what the message is about. Isn't that just Flow zone? You know? And it's just how, and then you see others who are literally walking up to the microphone and hello everybody and you can just tell they are not in their state of Flow. There's so much in their head about exactly what they need to hit and how they're meant to deliver it, that it doesn't come across as powerful as it could.
Sally:
Because so much of Flow state is being in your body.
Ruby:
Yeah.
Sally:
Not over intellectualizing it, feeling it. Exactly. Which is why the great speaker has that beautiful alignment of the mind, the body, and the voice all working in harmony together.
Ruby:
A hundred percent. And it is actually one of the 12 Flow states. So in Flow science, EMI high studied 12 different areas of Flow. And of one of the most importance is deep embodiment. And that's exactly what you're referring to. It's how we decide that we become one with the thing that we wanna be in Flow with. It's like a Olympic hurdler doesn't see the hurdles, they just see the finish line, they're just flying over these things. Or it's someone who's like the stage example. I know for me personally, when I'm in deep embodiment and I'm, I don't know, teaching or I'm, I'm coaching my clients and I'm sitting in circle with them, whether it's in person or online, I don't even know what time it is. I don't even know how long it is I've been speaking for. And then all of a sudden I'm like, oh my god, how did an hour go by? Because you're so completely in the moment and it's, it's such a beautiful space to be in. Or you know, we feel this when we have catch up and we have beautiful chats over a drink. Right. Sal like, you know, it's, that's the embodiment. It's like you're so there with one another. Like I loved having our chat on that rooftop in Brizi and we were just talking about life and it was just so there it's like, oh what it's meant. The event's meant to start. Okay, let's go. But how quick did that time go?
Sally:
Oh, amazing. And that's also, you know, when we're in holidays,
Ruby:
Yes. It's
Sally:
So expansive. There's so much time. And then other days we wake up and go, oh gosh, it's the end of the day already. Oh, I love this. So Ruby, was there anything else you'd like to add?
Ruby:
We've talked about the preparation that is going to be your number one. Don't forget about the highway when you are on it. When you are on the highway. However, there is the dark side of Flow. So I do wanna touch on this very quickly and how I see this come through, whether it be preparation for speaking or whether it be after the speaking event itself.
Sally:
I'm intrigued the dark side of Flow. I've never heard of this.
Ruby:
You have, it's just a different term for it, but really I want you to remember to give yourself recovery time. Please give yourself recovery time. Because if you are just going from one flow state into another flow state, into another flow state, what does it do? It completely burns you out. I had a client tell me that she was doing six back to back 90 minute deep sessions and hardly slept that night because she was just so wired and she was in this, you know, of course we have these wonderful moments where you just wanna burn the midnight oil and do the thing. But if you're doing that consecutively, what does that do for your cognitive function? What does that do in terms of helping everything just rest? So after you've come off stage and you've delivered the best talk of your life and you just, you wanna pat yourself on the back for all the preparation, please don't just go and feel like you have to quickly go back into something else and do a live stream and speak to 600 people. Just give yourself a moment. I was speaking to another client of mine who's a speaker and he is like, after I do my talk, I go to the hotel room and have a 10 minute meditation and then I come down, it was a networking one. So then he comes down and does the networking, but that's his way of active recovery. So give yourself that time just to breathe. Otherwise you're just gonna burn yourself out and we don't wanna do that.
Sally:
Absolutely. And I have a podcast episode about that. The name of it slips my mind at the moment, but it's the honoring of the cycle of speaking, honoring of those seasons. We've got that planning, we've got the execution and we must have the recovery because if we don't have the recovery as Ruby, you said it's the burnout. However, it can also put us into this cycle of second guessing. Oh my gosh, was I okay? Was that understood? And we get into this spiral of beating ourselves up <laugh>. So if we honor that recovery, then we are much better equipped to be able to go into our next speaking scenario.
Ruby:
Exactly. I know a lot of speakers who run the entire show on their own, they don't have much of a team or a support to begin with. So straight after they've come off the stage and they've delivered and they've networked with everybody, they go home, it's a nighttime event, it's 10 o'clock, what are they doing? They're going straight into sharing on social media or trying to cut up their videos or trying to write a big post about what they've just done. It's exhausting. Do that the next day. It's okay, you are not on clock time, you're on expansive time, you're on embodied time and people that have received your amazing words whilst you're on stage, they're gonna be doing the sharing for you.
Sally:
Mm. And how funny, I've just got the title now. The episode is called What's Your Speaking Runway?
Ruby:
Oh my gosh.
Sally:
It's so perfect is what we're speaking about.
Ruby:
I love that.
Sally:
Yeah, so I talk about it in terms of the, the presentation is the flight taking off and you don't get to the airport at your departure time 'cause you, you're gonna miss the plane. So you've gotta do that reverse engineering on your time. You've gotta backtrack. And I love how we can overlay that with the idea of preparing ourselves to get into Flow state.
Ruby:
Yes. I have a question for you 'cause I always love asking this one. When do you feel you were last in Flow in terms of your own business? How did it feel for you?
Sally:
Yeah, when you were talking about being in circle and losing time. I'd say on Friday I was in Melbourne doing a speak up for your business workshop. So these are the small business the small workshops I run for business owners to help 'em speak about who they are and what they do with confidence. And that's one of the areas where often we can lose time because we're just going into the deep work and into the delivery. When I'm in teaching mode and coaching mode, that's when I'm absolutely in Flow.
Ruby:
Oh my gosh, I can see it too. Like your eyes are so lit up, even just recalling it. And you know what I wanna also say, when you talk about your workshops, I always think about you running workshops and I know you went to London and you did a couple there. It's just, it's such a
Sally:
Brain. We're back there in August.
Ruby:
Ah, for Taylor Swift.
Sally:
Well yes for Taylor and the Speak Up for Your Business workshop.
Ruby:
Priorities. Priorities.
Sally:
This is one of the great things about running your own business. You can, you can coordinate your life and your business together.
Ruby:
Isn't that Flow? I love that
Sally:
Yeah. Amazing. Ruby, was there anything else you'd like to add?
Ruby:
I really hope it's inspired everyone to think about your own Flow and you know, I know Sal and I are talking about it because we've been in our businesses for years and years now, and you do get so much better at understanding your own personal flow state. Don't put too much pressure on yourself to go from feeling like you're so crammed for time and there's zero productivity and focus into, right. I need to work out how to get into Flow state. So much of the small decisions that you make every day and how you set your boundaries and the things that you say yes and no to are simple as that. So just be more conscious about it. If Flow is something that you would love to have more of and you're just in that era where you wanna be able to be more congruence with your energy rather than feeling so up and down with it, then you know, just notice what are you doing day to day? Give yourself a a diary of when did you feel really great in the day and when did you not feel so great? And just move the proportion of the percentages of that 1% at a time.
Sally:
And with lots of self-compassion and self love as well. Yes, someone's listening and they're thinking, I need a bit of Ruby Lee magic. I need to get into Flow state. I need to build my business and learn more about also how to grow on LinkedIn. We didn't speak about that today, but Ruby Lee is also the queen of LinkedIn. How can they find you and work with you?
Ruby:
Okay. So seeing as you are actually already in podcast land, I have a podcast which you'll remember, it's called Flow State Business. It's not hard to remember. So come on over, just type that in. Wherever you listen to podcast episodes, that's where you're really going to just be able to dive into the world of Flow. And if there's anything else that you wanna take a look at, it's always in the show notes. Go ahead and access that.
Sally:
Amazing Ruby Lee, so wonderful to have you on the show.
Ruby:
Thank you Sally. Thank you so much for having me and for everybody else listening in as well.